CIA-RDP96-00788R001900610001-5

Approved For Release 2000/08/08: CIA-RDP96-00788R001900610001-5
TRANSCRIPT
HU-1078/8404/63
#66:
This will
be
a CENTER LANE Interview for 1430
hours, ll April 1984.
Okay you're now going to be
focusing your attention on the individual in the
photograph that I've provided you.
We're focusing
on a specific time window of 20 April 1984.
We
basically are going to want to know where he is,
how is he and who captured him.
#63:
#66:
Desperate
. desperate.
Focusing first on describing his location to me, 20
April 1984.
#63:
Gray ... and dry, man made buildings.
..
flat
roofs.
#66:
All right.
You're obviously skipping into a stage
4 matrix,
let's force ourselves into structure
here.
Declare those things in their proper columns.
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#63:
Okay, my AI is when I
look at the picture, the AI
break, -- it's sorrow.
I think that's all I should
need to get into stage four.
#66:
All right.
#63:
I get another sheet of paper.
#66:
Some of the things you that you've written there
should have been declared as Stage 4.
#63:
Um, um.
#66:
So stay in that structure as best we can.
#63:
... Stage 2 --- is gray, stage 2 --- is dry, tangible
is --- man made buildings, tangible -- flat roofs,
#66:
Dimensional -- flat, tangible -- roofs?
.
#63:
Um, um.
Dimensional -- is flat.
..
. Sketch -- high
ground tapering down to the water.
City is right
here.
Tangible --- distance, question mark (?), 50
something miles from there to the water.
#66:
Indicating city to water?
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#63:
Right, city to water.
57 is what came to mind.
.
. Tangibles --- flat
roofs, sketch -- flat roof
with (mumble) sections along the side, (mumble)
some type roofs, (mumble) and stuff.
#66:
Say to me what you're working on.
#63:
20 April 84, where is he.
#66:
All right.
#63:
Tangible -- is inside building.
#66:
Dimensional -- inside, tangible -- building.
#63:
Dimensional -- inside.
Stage
2
--- is
bright.
Intangible --- is (metro-light ) ?
Dimensional -- is
high ceiling.
#66:
Dimensional -- is high, tangible -- ceiling.
1
#63:
Tangible -- ceiling.
Dimensional -- is large, tangible
is hallway.
Stage 2 -- is bright, tangible --- is
CTADCT
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light.
Stage
2 -- dark,
tangible -- floors,
tangible -- doorway, tangible -- room, intangible -- old,
tangible -- building,
intangible-
confusion
break.
#66:
Very good discipline.
Declare the confusion.
#63:
Building is no longer used by the people it was
originally built for.
Intangible -- has a school
house
feeling.
Intangible -- abandoned,
tangible -- are people, stage 2, dimensional -- AI, EI,
(mumble).
#66:
As you bring your attention
to focus, declare
verbally what you're after.
#63:
20 April 84, where is he.
.
Dimensional
-- five, tangible -- people.
This is just narrative.
It's not five people we're looking for.
It's him
and other people.
But there's other
people,
there's some inside the room with him and some
outside, so it's not like they're all in the same
room.
#66:
Are you declaring a confusion break?
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#63:
No, I'm just declaring a differentiation between
the, I don't know where to put it, so I'm going to
put in over in the AOL column.
#66:
Okay.
#63:
All the people we're looking for.
#66:
AOL break.
#63:
AOL break.
#66:
Now, what is it?
This is not all the people we're
looking for?
#63:
Right.
I said five people, I think we're looking
for five people.
#66:
Yes.
#63:
But that's, I seeing him in a room
with a couple
other people in the room with him and couple people
outside the room, SO
analysis says, well the
people, the other people like him wouldn't be
outside the room, they'd be locked up.
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'5'

econrt
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#66:
So you term five people that you sense, but you're
not saying that those are the five missing people.
#63:
Right.
#66:
All right.
#63:
So not all the people we're looking for.
#66:
Okay.
#63:
Okay, tangible -- people inside room, tangible --
people outside room.
.
#66:
Inside and outside are dimensionals.
#63:
Dimensional -- inside,
dimensional -- is
outside,
dimensionals -- three people
inside, dimensional
-- two people outside, dimensional -- is high ceiling,
tangible -- ceiling, Stage 2 -- is light blue, white,
sketch -- hallway, doorway, room, door man is right
here, corner, another person here, and another
person here and two persons here.
#66:
Indicating two "Xs" inside and two "Xs" outside?
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#63:
Right.
And our man is the circle in the corner.
Tangible -- is part of building damaged,
Stage 2 -- is white, tangible -- is building.
#66:
I'd like to encourage you to move your perceptions
outside, like you've done and pick up some
distinguishing characteristics of the building.
#63:
That's what
I
think I'll do now.
Stage 2,
dimensional, AI, EI, TI, AOL, AOL signal.
#66:
Okay.
Again I'll ask you to verbalize your target
acquisition when you begin.
#63:
20 April 84, where is he.
Dimensionals
-- tall, tangibles -- building, stage
2 -- is white,
intangible -- damaged, sketch --
tangible -- is road,
tangible -- is
building,
tangible -- is
damaged
section.
AOL break --
It's clear around the
building,
it's like one of the few buildings
remaining in the area.
There's rubble and other
things around it, along, all the way around the
building,
So AOL -- is lone building.
#66:
Do I hear you saying lone building in a damaged
area?
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#63:
Um, um.
In a damaged area.
A
portion of this
.
building is damaged.
#66:
I think it's appropriate now that we move on to the
movement exercise as associated with this building.
#63:
Okay.
Stage 2 -- is green, dimensional
--- is flat,
. .
Sketch --- this is our building.
There's a
road along here, rubble around here and back here
quite a ways, many buildings.
And there are roads
going through here.
Abandoned area.
#66:
Intangible?
#63:
Um, um, intangible.
.
. And this is the, majority
of the city is over here.
Okay.
#66:
Okay, the first of the movement exercises, I would
like you to call this the site of 20 April 84 and
for
the movement
exercise, move north of
this
location, north of this location is something which
describable.
#63:
. Sketch --- our building, the road.
SECRET
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#66:
"X" indicating our building?
#63:
Okay, I had a little square.
#66:
Okay, square indicating --
#63:
Square's indicating our building.
This is north.
It's high ground here, very high.
Dimensional --
.
This is city.
This area out here --- intangible --
is middle of nowhere.
#66:
Okay, can you verbalize a little bit more than the
wave of your hand which I didn't understand.
#63:
This rubbled area that I drew on page 6.
#66:
The abandoned area in and around --
#63:
Right, is away the city, like it was a new area of
the city that was being built, but it's all been
damaged, so everybody had to leave and go back to
the city again.
And our building is there.
#66:
Okay .
All right, so do I understand you say that
north of our location is city?
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#63:
From the building, northwest, northeast, excuse me,
northeast of our building is the city. And just
above the city is a rugged, high ground area.
.
#66:
All right.
Is there dimensionals on that.
#63;
. You
can see the city -- dimensional -- 7
miles, and the mountains are beyond that, but you
can see those over the city, 25 miles.
#66:
Okay, those AOL distances or are they dimensional?
#63:
Best guess distances.
#66:
Okay, I would say those are. AOLs as opposed to
signal line.
#63:
Yeah,
these are analytical, yeah there are
analytical dimensionals.
#66:
Analytical
dimensionals,
okay .
The
true
information that I can depend upon, would be that
if I stood at my building I can the city over there
and I could see the mountains behind it.
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SEGRET
#63:
Um, um.
#66:
Okay, let's try another movement exercise then.
#63:
Okay, that was page 7 for the north.
#66:
Yes.
Let's move now east of the the location.
#63:
Page 8, east of site.
Figure out which way is east.
#66:
What's your system, figure out which is east, you
just tell yourself to go after it.
#63:
East of site, 20 April 84.
#66:
That's correct, just go on automatic.
#63:
. .
. Dry, barren area.
#66:
Watch your structure here.
#63:
Stage 2, dimensional, AI, EI, TI, AOL,
AOL
signal.
Dimensional -- is
flat, rolling,
tangible -- is land, stage 2 --- is dry, intangible
-- is barren.
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#66:
That's good structure.
#63:
Stage 2 -- is brown, yellow, intangible -- is large
area,
intangible
-
is border.
#66:
Intangible is?
#63:
Border.
#66:
All right.
#63:
To put that in context, it's just a flat, rolling,
barren area and it just keeps going for a great
distance, and then I feel there's a border of some
kind between countries or between something.
All right.
#66:
#63:
And that's east of site.
That's page 8.
#66:
Let's make another movement then. By acquiring the
original site, then let's move south of site.
Watch your structure.
#63:
Stage, dimensional, AI, EI, TI, AOL, AOL signal.
Tangible -- is land, stage 2 -- is bright,
.
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yellow, brown, tangibles --- is cliffs, stage 2 --
is
dry ,
intangible -- is
rugged, sketch
--
dimensional ---
is flat area, dimensional -- is flat,
tangible -- is
valley, dimensional-
is
high,
tangible -- cliffs, AOL break -- limestone, AOL signal
- -
-limestone, stage 2 -- is hard porous, yellowish,
dry, dimensional --- is large similar area, that's
south of site.
#66:
Okay, south of site, what was the last thing you
said?
#63:
Large, similar area.
#66:
Okay, nothing descriptive there, many of the things
are all the same there?
#63:
Um, um.
There's cliffs and valleys, yellowish,
crusty, soil, like limestone.
#66:
All right.
#63:
That was page 9.
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#66:
Okay, let's move into the west of the site, the
site of interest on the 20th of April 84, and now
move west of the site.
#63:
Tangible -- is
water,
sketch
X
is
our
building.
Circular area
is
high ground, Large
square is city.
Shoreline runs generally northwest
to southeast.
Northwest, large X area is where the
population is sticking along the shore.
West of
our building.
. Dimensional -- is considerable,
dimensional
-
- is distance, tangible -- is shore,
tangible
is
water,
.
And this comes
back this way, .... tangible -- is water.
(mumble).
#66:
Okay, in distance you call now considerable.
Okay
that's fine.
#63:
That's the best I can do.
#66:
You're saying definitely that is not a shoreline
town, shoreline city.
#63:
Right.
#66:
It's a considerable distance to the water.
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#63:
Analysis, 50 to 75 miles.
#66:
You get that kind of big chunks of distances?
#63:
Um, um.
#66:
Okay, let's take a two minute break.
#63:
Break.
#66:
We're ready to start again, and this time we're
going to use the picture and we're going after now,
how is he, describing
his physical
and
psychological condition.
#63:
How is he, 20 April 84.
This is page 11.
.....
. .
Miss break,
.EI
is tired, EI -- is
sore,
. AOL break -.
pain in right side, ....
nervous,
tangible -- is alive, EI --- is waiting,
...
.. EI-
- is weak,
(mumble)
#66:
Okay.
#63:
I don't know how much of that was AOL and how much
was analysis, necessarily AOL, but analysis or not,
but I know, I've got a definite feeling he is alive.
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#66:
All right.
#63:
Which is about the best I can tell you.
#66:
That's fine.
Okay let's move on then to the last
question.
#63:
Page 12.
#66:
Which is who captured him and let's talk for just a
minute here. We're wanting you to describe the
responsible parties.
#63:
Who can help get him back and to us.
#66:
Yes, yes.
Who do we see to get him back, who are
the responsible parties?
#63:
..
.. Break.
#66:
Let's watch your structure.
#63:
Confusion break --- The confusion is many different
types of people at once.
Intangible
-- is
organized, intangible -- is official,
Stage
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2, dimensional, AI, EI, TI, AOL, AOL signal.
In
response to the question, who can we see to get him
back.
Dimensional
- is large, stage 2 --- is
brown, tangible
is building, ... tnagible -- is
blocked
shaped,
intangible --
is
embassy.
Dimensional -- is location, the big X area of
population, large X area, more population.
#66:
Can you show me that on that page?
#63:
On page 10.
#66:
Indicating the upper left corner in the sketch on
page 10.
#63:
Right.
If I divide this into fourths, this
embassy is in area with.a number 1 marked, it's in
that area, about center of the way.
#66:
Lower left quadrant of the city?
#63:
Yes.
#66:
Okay.
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#63:
Tangible --- people, stage 2 --- black, tangible --
is hair, dimensional -- is short, short hair,
tangible -- is hair, dimensional, AI, EI, TI, AOL,
AOL signal. The people who have him now has short,
black hair, dimensional
-- is short, stage 2 -- is
black, tangible -- is hair.
#66:
We're dealing with the people that have him now,
not necessarily the people to go to see?
#63:
Right.
Stage 2
-
is light, tangible -- clothes,
AOL break
like soldiers. What I mean by
that
is
they're
not
in
charge, they're just,
they're way down the
ladder.
They're people who
are holding him now
are way down the ladder,
they're just told to do so.
#66:
All right.
#63:
. .
..
Intangible -- is foreign,
tangible
language,
That's it.
#66:
Okay .
#63:
End.
#66:
1524.
Okay, very good.
We'll end there and the time is
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