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TRANSCRIPT
HU-1063/8301/01
#66:
This will be a CENTER LANE interview for 1000 hours
25
January 1984.
Relax and concentrate now.
Relax, relax and focus your attention solely and
completely ;
SG1B
and describe your perceptions to me.
SG1B
#01:
Ah .... impression of .... ah .. spot on the ground
that's expanding out in a circle.
. . . Ah. . . you span
that out to a mile, I get the target location in
the lower right hand corner of or edge of circle.
Get a flat roof, white building, something stacked
on the roof in the upper right corner.
Surrounded
by fence, trees.
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#66:
Describe the entrance to this building.
#01:
Two
ah ... two
heavy
doors,
low
overhang, .
... now
it's
a
little bit
larger
overhang.
I
don't
see
any supports on it,
however.
I'm reminded very much of a .. this is just
a remembrance that
I'm reminded of, a small
hospital or a clinic type of entry.
#66:
Okay .
Moving away from your memory track into the
actual target building, scan the building, describe
the activities you perceive in the building.
#01:
. See
people
discussing
things,
. ah. . feeling of research, discussions.
#66:
Okay, describe this specific area in the building
where these research discussions take place.
#01:
. Two areas predominantly, mostly in the
basement where there's equipment and somewhat on
the first floor, .... in to the prime experiment
areas, basement, right side.
#66:
Okay. Describe experimenting areas.
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#01:
.. See many electronics, boxes sitting on floor,
not on the floor but on tables.
Light indicators,
... gauges, dials, .... heavily cabled, many cables,
fine wires ... all interconnecting these two. .. ah ....
looks like some performance patch panel, or patch
box.
... Um .. many holes.
. . feeling of
...
computer, small kind like desk top.
#66:
Okay .
If I understand right, we're looking at an
area in the basement that has some electronic
equipment, perhaps a small computer type facility?
#01:
Ummmm .... think the computer is one of many things
in this room.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
Ah ... see shielding of some kind too.
The room has
some shielding in it.
floor, roof, walls.
#66:
Okay.
Let's scan around to the adjacent rooms and
immediate area, see what they look like.
#01:
Pavilion
room, lounge area, tables, chairs,
food storage, whatnot.
See lab area with sink,
chemicals, measuring equipment, ah .. measuring
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things,
measuring ... ah .... typograph
type
information,
ah .... offices,
desks,
bookcases,
...
. old fashioned blackboards as well.
That's kind
of interesting.
That's all I get in that
regard.
#66:
Okay. Is this area confined to the bottom right or
have you looked at the entire basement area?
#01:
There apparently is a workshop, equipment
workshop, electronics repair area in the other end
of the basement, .... storage rooms, .... apparently
someone sleeps down there as well.
There's a small
room with a bed.
. That's essentially it.
#66:
Okay. Go in the small room
with the bed and look
around, see if
its in fact for sleeping or
something else.
#01:
It's predominantly used for resting, sleeping, ..
naps. Ah ..
. Just sleeping or, I don't get feel
for overnight type sleeping, I get a feel for naps
or rest type sleeping.
#66:
Okay.
Let's move out of the basement area now and
look at some of the other areas.
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#01:
There are offices, first floor.
There
is one more floor, a second floor, and it appears
that's all ..... um ... sleeping quarters type of area,
but it's very regimented and like many bunks, ...
beds.
And another interesting room is ... got cloth
walls, it's
like
a sound
or padding type
protection.
It's
all
white, .... floor's soft.
Strong feeling of the rubber walled room, you know,
the
rubber
padded
room
feeling.
There's
a
psychology reason or something.
....
. Some other
rooms are a little different.
Another room is all
white tile, very sterile.
.... Feel very uneasy
about this area of the building, as well.
#66:
Break out uneasy.
#01:
Ah ... see
hummm.
...
humans
subjected
to
experimentation.
#66:
Okay. Right now, this moment, is there anything
going or is that resative?
#01:
It's resative.
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#66:
Okay.
Let's continue to look right now, this
moment.
It's very
important that you get the
physical descriptions of these particular areas
down.
You're doing very well.
#01:
There's apparently is ah .... two black
boxes in a small room. Look like ah .... b
black
freezers.
They're there by them selves.
#66:
Is this what you perceive as being upper floor,
second floor?
#01:
No, first floor.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
It's a dressing area or a ... holding area, it's more
of the word.
#66:
Describe what it is that makes you say "holding
area".
#01:
Just had an impression of someone
with
straps
around them.
Can't tell if they are
sitting,
standing
or
laying.
Just
a
flickering of
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perception of someone with straps across arms,
chest.
. . Ah, lots of medicines in this area, as
well.
#66:
Okay.
Where are we in the building
with the
medicines?
#01:
First floor, same side.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
Left side.
#66:
I want you to go ahead and explore this medicine, I
just had to know where they are.
#01:
It's a very powerful
narcotic type
mixtures.
It's an interesting thing, I've never
done this before, touching on the medicines and I'm
all .... it's like ah.
it's like a very subtle
psychological .... ah
.. psychodelic type trip when
you touch on medicines. I had to explain that.
#66:
Okay. I can understand that.
Interesting that you
in your particular mode of perception get the
message in that form. That's very interesting.
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#01:
It's like ah .... it has a real subtle hallucinogenic
type effect.
It makes me feel like I'm inside out,
upside down, backwards and sideways.
#66:
Um.
That's very interesting that you able to sense
the effect of the drug by touching it.
Obviously
there --
#01:
-- Parts of me are like expanding, really large, and
other parts are getting small.
#66:
I know that myself, I know that myself.
Okay,
that's --
#01:
-- There's a personality altering here too, as well
and it's like ah ... schizophrenic split where I'm
looking at myself.
I can be either part.
#66:
All right, good.
#01:
Bright lights. It's really neat.
#66:
Okay .
Let's understand what we're doing here.
#01:
Um, um.
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#66:
We're actually getting information about what these
drugs do, which is very unique that you are able to
sense this. I'm happy that you're able to report
that.
Let's move now, out of this little drug area
and look at something else in the building.
There's a lot of very interesting things to learn
here.
#01:
Ah. . I get .. the only other areas I
get are ....
large store room type areas.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
Second floor is just all bunks and beds and --
#66:
-- Okay, are these in separate little rooms or they
all in a dormitory type atmosphere?
#01:
Dormitory, but it's split, it's like two dorms.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
Left side, right side.
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#66:
Now, you said before that, you'know we have looked
at several different areas, and I'm going to ask
you to draw those out later. You said before some
sort of research, then had to do with some sort of
electronics and then later you had the feeling of
uncomfortableness, because you felt there was some
sort of human things here and you got the traces
and bad feelings.
It's necessary now for
us
actually explore a particular activity in this
building, but it's hard for me say, in a building
of many activities over the years, a particular
activity.
So I want you to select out, asking
yourself, you select out an activity of interest to
us.
#01:
...
. Okay
. See ah ... get an impression
of a person laying in, laying in black, laying in a
black room.
They're .... ah .... not
wearing
anything, they've got all kinds of wires fastened,
... laying in a black room,
.. heavily drugged.
There's ah. .
apparently there's some form
of suggestion being made ... to the
. and they're
a
recording patterns from the wires
in
different room.
I'm having trouble placing this
black room.
It's like the person is just floating
in air in
the
black room,
maybe
their
perception.
orenrt
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#66:
How is this suggestion made?
#01:
Ah
Someone else in another room making
the suggestion but I'm having trouble actually
seeing him doing it.
He just keeps repeating like
a suggestion, like ah .... "apples are green" or
something like that, or "apples are blue, apples
are blue", some nonsensical message. It's a very
powerful suggestion however, for some reason.
#66:
Okay. Let's go on through the experiment and watch
it happen.
#01:
...
.. See a picture of this person coming from the
ah .. black room and just put to bed,
. .
. . observed.
#66:
Okay.
Go back to the time of the black room and
tell me what's going on.
#01:
That's it, just the suggestion going over and
over.
...
.A
lot of monitoring this person
while the suggestion is being made.
#66:
Okay.
Let me see if
I
understand
your
description.
A person in a black room who is, has
wires, doesn't appear to be clothed, but has wires
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hooked to him, is in a drugged state and by some
mechanism that you have not explained, a suggestion
is made.
My assumption to or directed at this
drugged individual and certain measurements, via
these wires that are connected are then taken.
#01:
Correct.
#66:
All right, let's move back to the time of the
actual experiment with the person in the room.
Describe again to me this drugged state and what's
going on.
#01:
#66:
.
. Just a minute.
I can tell by the sound of your voice that you are
getting deep, I will wait.
#01:
I
get ah ...
the only
impression I get is ah.
.. is one of being totally
lost.
. . . Ah . . . .
Extreme
ah .. slow respiration,
heart beat, .... very low blood pressure.
Mind is
lost, ah .. wandering.
Very heavily latent dreams,
.
. nonsensical.
.
. .
. The ultimate focus is
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evidently on the suggestions.
...
. Also get the
feeling this person ah ... is knowledgable of what's
happening, is volunteering.
They don't, I don't
sense a will to not participate.
#66:
Okay.
Give me a profile of this person that's
partaking in this experiment, age, sex.
#01:
Male, 35, .
. . That's interesting, that's all I get.
#66:
That's all asked.
#01:
...
. Um
The military mind,
very
regimented,
military
orientation.
.
. Ah.
... sensitive ... will
that's
important.
Volunteer, selected kind of person for
lack of will, willpower, lack of tenacity, lack of
something
rather
than
selection for
having
something.
.
. (mumble) I get, I get more of
this person is more of a nerd than anything else.
#66:
Okay.
In the condition, during the time window of
the experiment, he seems to be in this particular
situation, it would appear as
though he is
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certainly being conditioned to be opened to some
suggestion here.
What suggestion would you like to
leave with him?
#01:
Um
I'll leave him a suggestion
that it doesn't work.
Just a minute.
Um .. interesting.
....
had to put it in the right
brain, couldn't do it in the left brain.
#66:
(mumble) opening a channel of communication in
order to leave your message, it might have been
possible that he had something for you.
#01:
....
no ..
. . he's a real vegetable ... um.
just
get a strong feeling of not caring.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
Kind of "the hell with it" attitude.
#66:
Is it the effect of the drugs or his basic
personality?
#01:
I think both, since over exposure to the drugs.
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#66:
Okay.
It's
now time for me to stop
asking
questions.
You need to extend yourself in your
perceptions beyond the limiting confines of my
questions, into the target area completely and
wholey, beyond the confines of my questions. Do
this now.
#01:
I
think
they're doing
some kind of behavioral
studies.
It's kind of a
two part thing, part A
is to study behavior,
induced behavior and the other
is to inflict an
induced behavior, ... deposit
a
two way type thing.
And that's all I get.
#66:
Okay.
Before we come out of this, I don't quite
understand the two sides that you explained to me.
See if you can't break that out a little clearer.
#01:
One is effect and cause and the other is cause and
effect.
Causing a human being to do something,
causing a human being, shit, I don't know, I'm
getting all screwed up here. Either to cause a
human being to react or to measure the reaction of
the human being.
That's what I get.
#66:
Okay.
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#01:
I don't know how to explain it any clearer.
#66:
That's fine, I understand that explanation now.
Now ask yourself what is the stimulus?
#01:
I just get this strong esoteric type
suggestibility or suggestion or whatever you want
to call it.
#66:
Okay .
#01:
And it's in the conditioning is derived from the
use of drugs.
#66:
All right.
#01:
And that's all I get.
#66:
Okay, now I'm going to ask you to draw the area
here so that we can pinpoint specific activities.
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DRAWING EXPLANATION
HU-1063/8301/01
#01:
Okay, page 1 is the basement, what I perceive what
I
call
a
basement area and the things are
appropriately labeled here. And I feel that two
experimental rooms, what I call experiment rooms,
are heavily shielded, that's floor, ceiling, walls.
#01:
Page 2 is the ground floor entry level. And that's
where I perceived the medicine, drug treatment
area, being the padded room, the white tile and I
got a thing labeled unknown, but I just feel like
there's a lot of general storage and stuff over in
that area. And then offices. And like a general
get together.
I call it a research study area.
It's kind of like where everybody gets together and
they eat lunch there and do all that kind of stuff.
#01:
Page 3 is a rendition of what I perceive to be the
second floor which is a left hand dorm and a right
hand dorm. They're two identical dormitories with
bunk like beds and bathrooms and all that kind of
junk. But they're identical and they're separate.
I got to say about the floors here, I get a really
strange sensation in saying a second floor. It's
kind of like the basement floor disturbs me in that
I think it might be the way it's constructed that
causes me to think it's a basement in that it might
have no windows, you know, just all solid walls and
maybe the shielding in the walls or something, I
don't know exactly, it could be split level, it
could be any of those things. It just, there's not
a right feel about saying basement, 1st floor, 2d
floor, it's more of a like there's something mixed
there and I don't know what it is.
#66:
So you think that the basement is not necessarily
entirely subterranean.
#01:
Right.
And it may be that this building has a
basement and a 1st, 2d and 3rd floor and I've been
1
on the 1st, 2d and 3rd floor and never bothered
with the basement, cause all that's down there is
pipes and ash and trash. I just had to say that.
#66:
Okay.
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RESEARCH
OFFICE
AREA
STORAGE
STORAGE
ADDITIONAL
EXPERIMENT
ROOM.
ELECTRONIC
REPAIR
AREA.
.
+
HALLWAY
LAB
1
TECHNICAL
SUPPORT
AREA
SLEEPING
AREA
STAIRS
AREA.
MAIN EXPERIMENT
ROOM
THESE
TWO
ROOMS
ARE
SHIELDED.
11
BASEMENT"
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UNKNOWN
(GENERAL STORAGE)
OFFICE
OFFICE
OFFICE
WHITE
TILE
ROOM
PADDED
ROOM
MEDICINE
DRUG
TREATMENT
AREA.
RESEARCH
STUDY
AREA ,
-
ENTRY
'GROUND FLOOR "
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£
LEFT
DORM
RIGHT
DORM
STAIRS
AREA.
"2ND FLOOR"
1
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