CIA-RDP96-00788R001600120002-1

SG1A
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RDP96-00788R001600120002-1
INTERVIEW
66:
This will be a CENTER LANE interview with source #01. The
time is 0900 hours, 12 January 1983.
Focusing your attention now on 8 December 1982, at
SG1A
There is a building which is perceptible. Focus now and
describe the area within which you know as the old section of
the building on 8 December 1982.
01:
Someone sitting at a table .. a bell shape and back against a bookcase ..
long tables, some kind of ledger books.
66:
Do you recognize this area?
01:
Yes.
66:
All right. I'm interested in the area in the old section, of large
hard back folders.
01:
There's the folders.
66:
Describe activity you now perceive.
01:
.. feel they're folding out the sheets, sheets of paper folding out
of the folders.
66:
Describe your perspective as you watch this happen.
01:
Okay, just a minute.
... I'm watching ah .. someone taking information
off of cards. They're writing on these sheets.
66:
Describe the person doing this.
01:
.. It's ah, appears to be a woman, middle aged, wearing a light
gray coat, smock type coat ... It's just a box in there, many cards
in the box in some kind of sequential order ... She's taking the
cards out and writing numbers and letters on the sheets.
66:
All right. Now concentrate, concentrate and focus, move and
become one with this individual. Move and become one. Look down
at this folded out sheet and describe it to me.
01:
... It's a hierarchy of data, something to do with tests or ..
continuity on something.
SECRET
CLASSIFIED BY: MSG,DAMI-ISH
DIG: 051630ZJUL78
DECL:
Origination Agency's
Determination Required
NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS
INCI 2
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66:
Describe the format.
01:
It's double columns and they're all .. six digit numbers ... just
a minute.
66:
I will wait.
01:
..... They're like in ah. . scalloped or tree designs. There's specific
lengths or measures and tests .. they branch, .. keep getting a picture
of spirals and splits with numbers.
66:
Describe your position of observation.
01:
Looking straight down on the paper.
66:
From this position, can you see the entire sheet?
01:
Yes, it's got three folds .. Let me just .. ah
....
66:
Waiting.
Just a minute.
01:
66:
I will wait.
01:
... There's two double columns in the left. It's in the edge of the
left fold ... Those are key numbers. . And then there's a circle in the
center of the .. second fold on the third page. And it's a, it branches
and spirals in numbers .. that change, something to do with .. some kind
of measurement. But I don't know what kind.
66:
All right. Now listen to my guidance. Listen to my guidance now as
you look down upon this folded out page. Focus on the upper
left quarter of the format. Focus, observe and remember.
Now
working around to the right, the upper right quadrant of the
format. Look, observe and remember. Working around to the right
and down, the lower right quadrant, look, observe and remember.
And now moving on around the lower left quadrant, look, observe,
remember. And now once again the whole thing, the whole folded out
page, look, observe, remember.
66:
Now before we move to another area of the building, is there anything
else you'd like to tell me about this ledger and this lady's activity.
01:
Just a minute.
66:
I will wait.
01:
No, not right now.
66:
All right. Remember the page you observed and you can draw it for me
later.
2
SFORET
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DP96-00788R001600120002-1
01:
Okay.
66:
Now, relax and concentrate and free your mind of the perceptions
you've had. Free your mind now and move to that area of the
old section where you saw wall projections, where you saw people
looking at wall projections. Move to that area now and describe
the area to me.
01:
... It's like ah, it's a machine that's projecting a. . series of lines
on the wall from some kind of another machine .. . It's
projecting things you can't see with your eyes. . only can see
it when it's projected. . slows things down so you can see them.
66:
Describe this machine that does this.
01:
Large, box shaped .. uses ah ... shoots something in the end that
bounces around inside.
Some kind of measurement device .. that
ah .. measures time, relationship of time to something. Time and ah,
time and ah, I don't know, variances in energy.
66:
All right. Focusing on this machine that does this. In your mind
picture it in component parts. Functional modules that maybe fit
together. Describe these pieces to me.
01:
.. There's the projector part that shoots a beam, that's one part.
It's controlled beam.
:: The elements of the beam can be changed,
very, very narrow beam. It's the same component, is a ah. . shield or
a holder .. that can be changed, that can be made up of different
things. And the third part is a ... a apparently
some kind of
holographic or spectrographic type of sensing device .. that
measures time rate or frequency or something. I just keep seeing
a splatter of particles across .. a color spectrum. And then there's
a projection part that shows. . electronically on a projection what
this is.
66:
All right. You said before there were people that came and looked at
this projection?
01:
yes.
66:
Have you got perception now .?
01:
Yes, I see projectione is slowed down so they can recall it, like
frame by frame and this black box machine, in parts, does this
check or test very rapidly and then they a. . the film of this is
recalled by frame. And they look for .. a unique a. . variances in
the patterns .. differences in .. a particles or something.
66:
All right. Focus yourself now on this projection. Look at it
with those in the room and describe it to me.
SECRET
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PAUSE
01:
Looks like a ...
66:
Be careful to describe exactly what you perceive and not
(mumble).
01:
-- I know I ---
66:
I will wait.
01:
... It's foggy. .
66:
Go ahead.
01:
Cloud like projection, ah .. very perceptive paths or lines all
overlining one another, some curve, some .. intersecting and
branching out, some dwindling out to nothing. But some are
brighter than others, as if they're being used where others aren't.
It's all foggy or cloudy. Never the same set of patterns per
frame.
... Like looking very deeply into the ... machanics of
a .. some tiny atomic particle. It's always moving. ... I don't know ...
66:
Very good.
01:
.. I don't know. Surprising technology, very high tech.
.. It'
like they're carving up atoms. Splattering them into a picture ...
.. Trying to map the mechanics of it or the a, a yea, what makes :
it work. All you can get is the reflection of the energy
discharges, when they .. when they break down, .. when they come apart.
66:
All right. I have no further questions for you. But I would like
to allow you a few mements to explore and comment on your own.
Do this now.
01:
Trying to look for a reason, for doing this.
Just a minute.
66:
I will wait.
PAUSE
01:
They're apparently varying some type of beam projection and then
trying to measure the ... the resultant aberration or change in the ..
the frequency of movement of a atom, I keep getting a picture of an
atom with a revolving things, electrons, protons and whatnot.
And I see it, it's frequency being altered and I see the things
flying apart and they're measuring the, that point of breakdown
or whatnot. And. . the a. . required energy in the beam that cause
the aberration. That's all I get.
66:
All right, fine. Very good.
4
CEPDET
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DRAWING EXPLANATION
01:
Page #1 is the foldout logger, folder.
It's in three parts and
I depicted what's two columns on the left hand side. And these
columns run all the way to the bottom of the page, but they're
not necessarily filled in all the way down. But they're filled
in with 6 digit numbers. There's like a title line at the top
that'a very short. And then there's an ID line that's got four
or five different spaces in it, underneath that. That's on the
upper left hand side and it runs as far as it has to across the
sheet. There's a very squared off blocked diagram with a lot of
intersecting "Ys" and angles and some dotted lines. And what
appears to always be five sided figures, when they do create
a figure. And the line chart is always different from folder to
folder. And at each intersection are stacked digits, of two
lines of six digits each. And the first is always higher than
second and the second is not too far off from the first number.
But they are always different for each intersection. And this
is connected in some way to the projections.
I think the
differences are reflecting time and energy differences. And it has
something to do with densities or these logs reflect densities
in some way. All these logs are kept from cards that are in
some kind of order and delivered to these logging clerks or whatever,
in a box and they're always in some kind of an order. And
they're either keeping track of or annotating these log
cards in a way that will cause them to be used for updating some-
thing else. I'm talking around an axle , here, and I'm not really
sure I know what I mean. But the logs are connected to the cards
and the cards are IBM size. They don't appear to be IBM cards,
but they look like it. They're about the same size.
01:
Page #2 is a picture of what I percieve to be the presentation
on the wall. And these presentations are still life, you know,
they're not moving. They're given a frame at a time. They're
always different. Some of the lines are very ghost like, as
if they're after thoughts. And other lines are very illuminated
and superimposed or underimposed over the ghostlike, or under
the ghostlike images. And it's all like in a fog. And there
seems always be a huge black dot, kind of fuzzy, that's
right in the center of each of the frames. And I get the feeling
like this is an electronic presentation of something, like the
mechanics of something that's going on. It's captured in like
a hundred frames and then you go back and look at each individual
frame, because whatever happens is so rapid that you know it
can't be looked at any other way. And it can't be seen with
human eye, so it has to be done with machines. And that it has
something to do with the projection of different beams or fequencies
through different materials. And that's all.
66:
Okay, fine.
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Approved For Release 2000/08/08 -@IA-RDP96-00788R001600120002-1,
UNE CHART
ALWAYS DIFFERENT
1
THIS IS THE TITLE
THIS IS A ID LINE
LINE
1
SECRET
K
TWO COLUMNS
TO BOTTOM OF
PAGE
BUT NOT ALL
FILLED IN
6 DIGIT # 5
THESE
ARE ALWAYS
6 DIGIT #'S
FIRST NR IS NOT
MUCH DIFFERENT
FROM SECOND NR.
e.G .;
654836
654799
ALWAYS REFERENCES
DIFFERENCES IN TIME & ENERGY
THERE IS SOMETHING TO DO WITH
DENSITIES ON THESE LOGS AS
WELL
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SECRET
ELECTRONIC
PROJECTION
OFORMECHANICS OF/
IN PROJECTING
DIFFERENT BEAMS (FREQUENCIES
THRUOR OFF
DIFFERENT MATERIALS.
HEAVY BLACK
CIRCLE IN CENTER
OF FRAME
1
VERY
FOGGY
PRESENTATION
SOMELINES
ARE VERY
GHOST LIKE
CCCC
SOME LINES
ARE VERY
ILLUMINATED
SECRET
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N

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AGENT REPORT
For use of this form, see FM 30-17(C); AR 381-130; the proponent agency is the Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence.
1. NAME OF SUBJECT OR TITLE OF INCIDENT
SG1A
2. DATE SUBMITTED
3. CONTROL SYMBOL OR FILE NUMBER
SG1A
CL-987/8210/01
4. REPORT OF FINDINGS
On 12 January 1983, Source CL-01 was interviewed concerning
During a previous interview (CL-973/8210/01, conducted 8 December
1982) Source described a room with hard-back folders and a room of wall
projections. This interview was an attempt to have Source further
describe these areas. Source stated substantially as follows:
The hardback folders contained foldout sheets of paper. Clerks extracted
data from IBM sized cards and entered this data on the foldout sheets.
Information on the foldout sheets was a hierarchy of data and had
something to do with tests or continuity on something. These sheets had
three folds. On the top of the sheet was a title line and an ID line.
There were columns of six digit numbers on the left side or fold. The
rest of the foldout sheet had a very squared off blocked diagram with
a lot of intersecting "Ys" and angles and some dotted lines. At each
intersection of lines were two six digit numbers, one above the other.
The first number was always higher than the second and the second was not
too far off from the first number. Each set of numbers were different for
each intersection. The differences in the numbers may have been reflecting
time and energy differences. All this had something to do with densities
or these logs (foldout sheets) reflected densities.
In the room of wall projections there was a machine that projected a series
of lines on the wall from some kind of other machine. Things were projected
which could not be seen with the eye. In the projection things were slowed
down so they could be seen. The machine had a projector part that shot a very
narrow beam. It had a changeable shield or holder. The third part was a
holographic or spectrographic type of sensing device which measured time rate
or frequency. Then there was a part which electronically displayed. The
display or projection from this machine was cloud like with paths or lines
all overlining one another. Some lines or paths were brighter than others.
Each separate projection or frame had a different set of patterns. Source
felt as though he was looking very deeply into the mechanics of some tiny
atomic particle.
Source provided the following unsolicited comments reference his opinion
as to the reason behind the activities described above: They were apparently
varying some type of beam projection and then trying to measure the resultant
aberration or change in the frequency of movement of an atom. The frequency
CLASSIFIED BY:MSG, DAMI-ISH
DIG: 051630ZJUL78
DECL: Origination Agency's
Determination Required
5. TYPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT
6. SIGNATURE OF SPECIAL AGENT
(continued)
DA
FORM
1 APR 52
341
REPLACES WD AGO FORM 341, 1 JUN 47, WHICH MAY BE USED.
TY GPO: 1970 380 -907/248
INC/3
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AGENT REPORT
For use of this form, see FM 30-17(C); AR 381-130; the proponent agency is the Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff for latelligence.
1. NAME OF SUBJECT OR TITLE OF INCIDENT
SG1A
2. DATE SUBMITTED
3. CONTROL SYMBOL OR FILE NUMBER
CL-987/8210/01
4. REPORT OF FINDINGS
of an atom was being altered. They were measuring the point of breakdown
and the required energy in the beam that caused the aberration. Source
also stated that the foldout sheets in the hard-back folders were connected
in some way to the projections.
Attached hereto is ESHIBIT I, drawings provided by Source concerning the
areas described above.
No further amplifying information was obtained from Source during
this interview.
-
5. TYPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT
6. SIGNATURE OF SPECIAL AGENT
DA
FORM
1 APR 32
341
REPLACES WD AGO FORM 341, 1 JUN 47, WHICH MAY BE USED.
Ý GPO: 1870 390-907/248
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EXHIBIT COVER SHEET
EXHIBIT I:
Drawings
SUBJECT :
SG1A
CONTROL NO. :
CL-987/8210/01
AUX WALLISABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS
. CLOSURES
:
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UNE CHART
ALWAYS DIFFERENT
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THIS IS THE TITLE
THIS IS A ID WINE SUNUM
LINE
TWO COLUMNS
TO BOTTOM OF
PAGE
BUTNOT ALL
FILLED IN
6 DIGI- #'S
BEGRE
ECREA
& ENERGY
ALWAYS REFERENCES
DIFFERENCES IN TIME
THERE IS SOMETHING TO DO WITH
DENSITIES ON THESE LOGS AS
THESE
ARE ALWAYS
6 DIGIT #'S
FIRST NR IS NOT
MUCH DIFFERENT
FROM SECOND NR.
e.G .;
654836
654799
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ELECTRONIC
PROJECTION
OFORMECHANICS OF/
IN PROJECTING
DIFFERENT BEAMS (FREQUENCIES)
THEVOR OFF
DIFFERENT MATERIALS.
SECRETI
SOMELINES
ARE VERY :
GHOST LIKE
1
SOME LINES
ARE VERY
ILLUMINATED
HEAVY BLACK
CIRCLE IN CENTR
OF FRAME
VERY
FOGGY
PRESENTATION
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0