CIA-RDP96-00788R001600110002-2

SG1A
Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788R001600110002-2
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SECRET
INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT
SG1A
#66:
This will be a CENTER LANE interview source #01. Time is 0900 hours
and the date is 08 Dec 1982. On 8 Dec 1982 at
is a building which is perceptible.
#01:
There's some kind of open corridor in a "C" shape building. Very large
central
columns holding the roof up. I'm going to find that
place important. Found a large room with many, many tables, people
at tables. They got these large folders, hard back folders with
like binders, with many sheets of large paper like going through these
sheets. It's a library of some kind. There is some form redundant
analysis.
#66:
Break this out.
#01:
Keeping records on, keeping records on places, taking information off
cards, some kind of information cards, small like old fashioned
IBM cards, like little holes. Writing, penciling in very small on
the large sheets. Going to another room. See papers everywhere.
See large volume books stacked in vertical storage cabinets.
#66:
Move now to an alternate area of interest which is perceptible.
#01:
Get a large sections of floors that are compartmented separate
entrance, guards. They're like blocked from one another. For one
I got Somehow I got some kind, it's confusing, it's like --
#66:
Report.
#01:
-- projections on the walls of microned sized things under high
powered microscopes. Projections are being mapped someway. Something
to do with mapping. They're small squares, they're not on sheets.
That's very clean.
See great concern with sections of projections.
#66:
Personnel are?
#01:
Male, female mixed. It's seems to be more female than male. People
appear to be dressed very well.
#66:
Activity of personnel is perceptible.
#01
Got people doing tracing. People working on photographic record of
projections. People are walking with strange looking notebooks,
flip over pages, talking, writing.
#66:
Listen in and report.
SECRET
CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH
DIG: 051630ZJUL78
DECL:
Origination Agency's
Determination Required
INCL 2
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#01:
Just a minute, I'm kind of losing it, I want to get it back here.
#66:
I will wait.
#01:
Interest seems to be in tracing command routes of some kind, not military
command, it's tracing functional command. I don't understand that.
They're tracing functional command, decision messages of some kind
formed .
#66:
Tell me about this projection concept.
#01:
Small black squares under thick glass, "V" shaped machine, goes through
some black boxes, comes out through a projector. Projected on a
some white square and produces some kind of map.
It's not a topographic
map, but it's some kind of map, though.
#66:
Okay. Move now to an alternate area within the complex.
#01:
Find a (mage room full of reels, glass reels, vault like storage
terea, glass reels, blue plastic rings, rows of rings.
Very few people
around there wearing white smocks, storage area. Getting a general
overall building concept. I can just taste it, I can't interpret it
yet.
That's fine. Let's move to another area now.
#66:
#01:
Got = computer area. Struck with an impression that it's an IBM,
It's like a big IBM computer, "L" shaped CPU, rows of black and gray
tape drives with ... see other kinds too. Small black box type
equipments.
#66:
Okay. Go through and on to another area now.
#01:
Get a gut feeling that this building is a general concern's categorizing
and storing information. Keep getting rooms full of tables and people
and boxes of cards, and huge books, binders with many pages, histories,
histories and places and things. Very complicated cross index systems,
very complex. Looking for a main control center type place. See a
prime concern is history of research and development.
Break this out.
They're not doing research and development, but they're tracing
research and developemnt, I don't understand that.
#66:
#01:
#66:
Alright. That's very good. Let's focus, let's narrow your attention
now to physical space in time rather then the conceptual imprint of
the building, which is fine, and move that focus in physical space
to the middle area of this "C" shaped, the outside middle area.
Describe this to me.
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#01:
Outside middle area --
#66:
In what might be referred to as the center of the"C".
#01:
Outside?
#66:
Yes, outside.
#01:
I'm just surrounded by building.
#66:
All right.
#01:
Getting an impression of two functions now, two completely separate
functions now. The older part of the building is the tracing of R&D
And their! part is R&D. Sort of a projection of lessons learned.
I feel like I'm leaning on an old cannon, kind of an old seige gun.
#66:
Okay. In this area as you observe the building around you, do you feel
as though the area you were exploring before was in the older section.
#01:
Yes, definitely.
#66:
Okay. Move now into the newer section.
Move into the building
now, into the newer section and it becomes perceptible.
#01:
Get a white room feeling, hospital type feeling, clean, everything clean.
Bright white lights, white walls, white tables, everything white,
lab type, white. See people holding sheets of something against
lights. I get machine that holds small piece of something plastic.
Many lines coming away from the center, Board with lights, some kind
of test.
#66:
Very good. Move on to now to another area of the new section of
building. Other areas become perceptible.
#01:
See a room with blueprints, large blueprints, many colors, not just
blue lines, there's blue lines, red lines, brown and black, even
„white lines, just like jig-saw puzzles, spread on very large tables
lit from the bottom. Something, things are brought here from
across the street somewhere from across the street. There's (they a)
`somewhat processed, but finished processing is done here.
#66:
These things are perceptible.
#01:
Black spider like objects. Kind of roundish looking with a bunch
of wire legs coming out all directions. They're modern technology
but kind of crude too, in a sense.
#166:
You say they are brought from another place, decribe the route
to the other place.
#01:
Right across the street, =brought through a tunnel under the street.
Get an impression of, flashing impression of _a large furnace and
a little furnace, some process having to do with intense heat. But
it's not, they're not large objects, they're tiny. I'm losing it now.
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#66:
Okay. I want to ask just one more question, and this will be
in a question format, so I hope I don't disturb you in that.
Is there personnel difference between the old and the new section,
are these all the same people or they different people somehow?
2.
#01:
Completely different people. It's like there's a wall between the
sections.
#66:
Describe this difference between.
#01:
One's a researcher and the research is in the new building. The
collectors are in the old building.
#66:
All right. Now I have no further questions about the building
which we have been exploring. But I would now like to give you just a
few minutes to expand, to explore and to comment on your own.
#01:
Getting a lot of heavy impressions of very ulta-modern aircraft,
but I don't know if it's overlay or not, it seems to be disassociated
from the building. But it might have something to do with the building.
Like fighter aircraft. Black boxes,. That's all I get.
##66:
All right I would like you now to draw for me the areas of this building
that you described.
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DRAWING EXPLANATION
01:
"Page #1. Old building or old section, we'll call it old section
because the buildings are connected. You can't go from one to the
other, but they're fastened to one another, The Page #1 is
sort of like a partial description of a huge bay like room.
It
has all these very heavy ledger type binders. You know, they don't have
fixed pages in them but pages can be inserted and taken out, stacked
vertically in like holders, boxes type things against the wall.
Very large tables where these things can be unfolded and everything
and little boxes full of IBM like cards. They're not IBM cards but
they're very much like IBM cards, and which they then record information
historically in these ledger books. And this is on objects and places.
01:
Page #2 is in the old section and it is a vault like room which
is approximately 40 x 50 feet in size and it has just rows upon
rows upon rows of stacked ringed objects. Which I was getting
impressions of glass in these objects, so they are like containers
of some kind. I don't know what those are. There's a million of them
in there.
#01:
"Page #3 is old section and this is the exact view I had of a computer
and it struck me as being a very large IBM computer. That's the
impression I was hit with. It has two rows of like 8 to 12 tape
deck drives, the big stand up type drives. It's got a lot of
sequential storage type devices. Then it has a big long row of gray
boxes against the wall, which I feel are probably on-line storage
devices or operational space. And apparently it's got some kind
of modification fastened to the front end of it. It's a black box
type thing. Because it's part of the CPU, it's fastened to the
side of the CPU.
#01:
Page #4 is old section of the building. It's where they're putting
things of micron size under projectors and matching and mating
things, you know they're projecting overlays and inserts on a wall
and there's people taking notes on flip charts of whatever these
projections are. But I'm struck by, I use the term map, because
I'm struck by the straight numbers of straight lines and whatnot,
which are all different colors and which appear to be like roads
on a flat surface.
#01:
"Page #5 is new section, what I call new section of building. And this
is a top view of the lab and test room in which there is a lot of
test equipment. But one piece in particular that struck my
curiosty is this huge metal, I don't know if it's metal, it's this
huge coller that has this spider, black spider type device suspended
in the middle, very fine wires with legs coming out the sides, all
over. And they're fastened through this coller type device to a
lot of really heavy cables or wires that go in a black boxes on
both sides and they in turn of heavy cables that run into the console,
control console, it's like a test console. That in turn is fastened
to a display, which gives all kinds of pattern displays, you know
depending on which knobs you're turning on the console. And other than
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that, the lab areas in the new section really struck me as ultra-modern,
very, everything white, white coats, white walls, white,
you know, dust free, clean, all this kind of stuff. It's like
walking into an operating room in a hospital, but it's not a
medical hospital, just a very clean, white, alot of white, bright
light.
#66:
Okay.
Although we didn't spend time exploring the newer section
of the building, do you have any other feelings about any other
areas in the building, in the new section?
#01:
Just that there's partially made objects of some kind that are
brought there through this tunnel, that goes across the street
like to another building area, but I'm trying to remember what
I'm seeing that's coming through this tunnel. And all I'm seeing
is packets, wrapped packets of some kind that have things in them ..
And then I have a flash of a almost transparent sheet that somebody's
holding up to a very intense light, you know. Like they're doing
a quick scan of this sheet for something. You know I get a lot of
flashes of some scenes.
#66:
Okay.
#01:
So, that's all I get.
#66:
Anything else?
#01:
No
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OLD SECTION
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V
0
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FOLD ONT
PAGES
ATTACHED
BOXES OF CARDS
NOT UNLIKE IBM
1 CARDS
INFORMATION HISTORY
RECORDED/STORED,
TRANSCRIBED/CROSS
INDEXED,
( ON OBJECTS & PLACES
HISTORICAL
LENY
LARGE
LEDGER TYPE DOCUMENT
HOLDERS/BINDERS
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HDP96-00788R001600110002-2
1
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OLD SECTION
40 X 50 FEET.
11
SQUARE ROOM
WITH ROWS & ROWS OF RINGED
OBJECTS STORED.
THEY LOOKED LIKE
K= === >
E MUCH LIKE
A GLASS ENCLOSURE
OR ENCASEMENT.
2
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DCD SECTION
ROW OF BLANK
GRAY BOXES
TWO ROOMS
OFD
TAPED .
DANKS
L-SHAPED
CPU
K OPERATOR
CECRET
PART DE CPU
(APPARENTLY A MODIFICATION)
APPEARED VERY MUCH UKE
A LARGE IGM SET UP.
WITH A LOT
OT DE ON LINE STORAGE
3
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OLD SECTION
INSERT
ON LARGER
PROTECTION
OFF ON LEFT , O
TAKING
NOTES
ON PROJECTION
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-
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4,

NEW SECTION
TEST OBJECT, LOOKS LIKE SPIDER
HEAVY WIRES
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BLACK
60€
BLACK
Box
& SEGRET
FINE
WIRES
HEAVY
COLLAR
0-00788R001600110002-2
HUY CABLES,
1
1
CONTROL
FACE
TOP VIEW
DISPLAY
CONTROL
CONSOLE
LAB & TEST
ROOM.
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5.