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MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
23 Dec 80
SUBJECT: Update Briefing for Under Secretary of the Army, 22 Dec 80 (U)
1. (U) PURPOSE: This office had been tasked by OACSI to provide the
Under Secretary of Army, Dr. Spiro, with an update briefing concerning our
portion of the DoD GRILL FLAME (GF) Program.
2. (U) Following individuals were in attendance at the briefing (1030-1130 hrs,
22 Dec 80) :
Dr. Spiro, Under Secretary of Army
Dr. LaBerge, Under Secretary of Defense R&E
MG Thompson, ACSI
COL Scanlon, DCSOPS, INSCOM
LTC Watt, INSCOM GF Project Manager
MAJ Hay, OACSI
MAJ Lytle, Office of Under Secretary of Army
3. (U) Inclosure 1 provides outline of primary points covered during my
presentation.
4. (S/NOFORN)
Despite the numerous evaluation summaries shown to Dr. Spiro,
he indicated that he was not satisfied that we had demonstrated any "successes"
to him. MG Thompson and I tried to show him how individual evaluations had
apparently helped outside agencies in developing their intelligence plans/
estimates, and that the consumers were the ones who were saying that our
products had been useful to them. Dr. Spiro would not change his thinking on
the subject. I am convinced that the subject matter (parapsychology ) "bothers"
Dr.Spiro and that from his perspective, along with the scientific gap in the
area, that unless someone can "prove" how remote viewing works then he will never
accept the data being presented to him.
5. (U) Dr. LaBerge wanted to know if we were doing any follow-up evaluations
on the people in our program. He was concerned about their welfare and the
possibilities of the program impacting on them in a negative way. I explained
that we were all very concerned about the health and welfare of our people, as
any organization should be. I explained that the Command Psychologist was
actively working with us and that he was an important member of our program.
I outlined the personality profile surveys that we all had taken and that the
Command Psychologist would be maintaining close contact with all members of
the program in order to help them whenever necessary and to be able to evaluate
their mental welfare as best as possible.
CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH
DATED: 051630ZJUL 78
REVIEW ON:
23 Dec 2000
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6. (S/NOFORN)
Dr. Spiro asked Dr. LaBerge to comment on what had been
presented and what did he suggest they do. Dr. LaBerge stated "The question
is "Do we stop or continue?" .... I support quiet, rational continuation of
the program, but don't allow ourselves to get caught in the position of
selling the program."
7. (S/NOFORN) Dr. Spiro responded that he didn't see any harm in
continuing trying. If there is a 1/1000 chance that we can support the
government with this program, then we can't be faulted for spending government
money and we should go ahead and do it.
8. (S/NOFORN) After the briefing, MG Thompson instructed MAJ Hay and myself
to get together and come up with a recommendation for him concerning
Ingo Swann's new training concept and whether or not the Army should help
finance the development of his program. No suspense was given.
9. (S/NOFORN) MG Thompson instructed me to continue with our program until
such time as we hear from his office. COL Scanlon was present when the ACSI
made that remark.
1 Incl
as
Murray B. Wall
MURRAY B. WATT
LTC, MI
INSCOM GRILL FLAME
Project manager
APPROVED GLIAula
CHAD B. WHITE
COL, GS
2
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PROGRAM
DEVELOPMENT
TIME
EVENT
OCT 78 - DEC 78:
ORGANIZATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
DEC 78 - FEB 79:
SCREENING & SELECTION OF PERSONNEL
APR 79 - OCT 79:
IN-HOUSE TRAINING
MAY 79 - DEC 79:
SRI ORIENTATION
NOV 79 - PRESENT:
OPERATIONAL TASKING
*
JAN 80 - PRESENT :
TASK FORCE ESTABLISHED
AUG 80
MOVE TO NEW FACILITY
* HAD RESPONDED TO EARLIER TASKING, BUT. NOW COMPLETE EFFORT DEVOTED TO OPERATIONAL
MATTERS.
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WORKING PAPER

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AS OF 15 December 1980
SUMMARY OF SESSIONS
TRAINING:
184
OPERATIONAL:
462
PROJECTS - 46
A.
COMPLETED:
26
B.
WORKING:
19
C. INACTIVE:
1
INTELLIGENCE PROVIDED:
A. USEFUL DATA PROVIDED 25 PROJECTS
B. FAILED TO HELP 16 PROJECTS
C. DATA STILL BEING STUDIED CONCERNING 5 PROJECTS
*
Includes 1 project canceled.
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WORKING PAPER
.

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