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SECRET
S
C
AMSAA
INTERIM NOTE #
15
(SECRET-NOFORN)
PROJECT GRILL FLAME
(U)
AMSAA PHASE I EFFORTS
July 1979
CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, HQDA
(DAMI-ISH) , dated 7 Jul 78
REVIEW ON 7 July 1999
-
SPECIAL ACTIVITIES OFFICE
U. S. ARMY MATERIEL SYSTEMS ANALYSIS ACTIVITY
ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MARYLAND
3
A MS AA 1 1 5 5 1979
C
SECRET
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`Information and data contained in this document are based on the input
available at the time of preparation. The results may be subject to
change and should not be construed as representing the DARCOM position
unless so specified.
:
The Special Activities Office (SAO) of the US Army Materiel Systems
Analysis Activity (AMSAA) produces this Interim Note as an informal
account of an interim nature, transmitted through channels to a limited
number of addressees, on a working level need-to-know basis for internal
use. It is a fragmentary disclosure of day-to-day progress in a technical
field of interest to the Special Activities Office. It is not intended that
this report affect in any way the publication or established procedures
governing AMSAA reports. Thus, due to the nature of the document, no final
conclusions or recommendations should be construed or based upon the infor-
mation contained therein.
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-SECRET
SPECIAL ACTIVITIES OFFICE
INTERIM NOTE NO. 15
(SECRET-NOFORN)
PROJECT GRILL FLAME (U)
AMSAA PHASE I EFFORTS
July 1979
CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, HQDA
(DAMI-ISH) , dated 7 Jul 78
REVIEW ON: 7 July 1999
1
ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND,
M D
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UNCLASSIFIED
--
2
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UNCLASSIFIED
SPECIAL ACTIVITIES OFFICE
INTERIM NOTE NO. 15
Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD
July 1979
(SECRET-NOFORN)
PROJECT GRILL FLAME (U)
AMSAA PHASE I EFFORTS
ABSTRACT
This report presents the results of AMSAA's Phase I
participation in Project GRILL FLAME.
3
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UNCLASSIFIED
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
The identification of the specific roles played by
specific individuals in the AMSAA GRILL FLAME program must be
protected.
Individual roles are referred to in this publica-
tion and all other project records by alpha-numeric designa-
tors.
£
However, the success of the GRILL FLAME program is
dependent on all of the individuals involved as participants,
advisors, administrative support personnel, etc. Their names
are hereby listed in recognition of their support.
Dr. Joseph Sperrazza
COL Albert DeProspero
GEN Lewis Walt
Mr. Daniel O'Neill
Mr. John Kramar
Dr. Evan Harris Walker
Mr. Paul Kunselman
Mr. Ray Dietz
Mr. Scott Phillips
Mr. Michael Iten
Mr. Dan Murdock
Mr. Clark Thomas
Ms. Lynne Taylor
Ms. Donna McComas
Ms. Edith Reardon
Ms. Sally Woomert
Mr. Mark Reches
-A
Mr. George Hanna
Mr. Michael Finkel
Ms. Sandy Johnson
Ms. Jo Carroll
Ms. Carole Brooks
Mr. Brit Harrison
Ms. Glenna Tingle
Ms. Juanita Keesee
Ms. Arlene Whitaker
Ms. Michael Miller
Ms. Louise Aaron
4
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"SECRET
(S-NF) CONTENTS (U)
Page
ABSTRACT
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
1. BACKGROUND
2.
OBJECTIVES
3.
DEFINITIONS.
3.1
Remote Viewing (RV)
3.2
Remote Viewer
3.3
Interviewer
3.4
Remote Viewing Session.
3.5
Target Pool Selector (TPS)
3.6
Beacon Individual
3.7
Project Officer
3.8
Project Manager
4.
SELECTION OF PARTICIPANTS.
5.
ORGANIZATION OF RV TEAMS
6.
PROCEDURES
6.1
Target Selection.
.
6.2
Remote Viewer Session Preliminaries
6.3
Activity of the Beacon Individual
6.4
Remote Viewing Session.
6.5
Post-Session Analysis
7.
EVALUATION
7.1
Rank Ordering Method.
7.2
Principle Concepts Method
8.
SPECIAL SESSIONS
8.1
Canada.
8.2
Sweden
8.3
Egypt
8.4
Special Participants.
8.5
Target-of-the-day Sessions.
5
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(S-NF)
CONTENTS (Continued) (U)
Page
9.
PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED
9.1
Problems Impacting on Participant Efficiency.
9.2
Location.
9.3
Equipment
9.4
Special Case
10. LESSONS LEARNED.
10.1 Rise Time
10.2 Quiet Time.
10.3 Remote Viewer/Interviewer Interaction
10.4 Remote Viewer/Interviewer Interaction Specific-
ally during the RV Session.
10.5 Tape Recording.
10.6 Role of the Beacon Individual
10.7 Evaluation Process.
11. SUMMARY.
APPENDIX A - GRILL FLAME PROJECT DESIGNATION TWX
APPENDIX B - SRI PROTOCOL.
APPENDIX C - EDITED TRANSCRIPTS AND TARGETS PACKAGE.
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"SECRET
(SECRET-NOFORN)
PROJECT GRILL FLAME
(U)
AMSAA PHASE I EFFORTS
1.
(SECRET-NOFORN) BACKGROUND
(U)
i.
.
.
ongoing
(S-NF)
AMSAA
first
became cognizant of
efforts
in applied parapsychology, or psychoenergetic pro-
cesses,
through unclassified information available
in the
open literature.
This particular literature concentrated on
the work in remote viewing being done by Dr. Harold Puthoff
and Mr. Russell Targ of SRI International with psychics Ingo
Swann, Pat Price and Hella Hammid.
(S-NF )
On 21 March 1978, Dr. Puthoff gave presen-
tations to the AMSAA staff on remote viewing as a part of
AMSAA's general guest lecture program.
At Dr. Puthoff's
request, one of the presentations was given at the SECRET
controlled access SI level to a selected few AMSAA manage-
ment personnel while the other presentation was given at the
SECRET level to about 40 interested members of the AMSAA
staff.
These presentations provided the impetus to further
explore SRI's efforts in coordination with the Foreign Tech-
nology
Division,
Wright-Patterson
Air
Force Base,
Upon
realizing the tactical military potential of such phenomena,
AMSAA so informed the CG, DARCOM and the Under Secretary of
the Army and received tacit approval in April 1978 to fis-
cally assist the project in order to sustain it and to
obtain some data on targeting of tactical ground targets.
In May 1978, AMSAA transferred $100K to FTD for SRI to con-
tinue their investigations on the military applications of
remote viewing.
(S-NF)
In addition to the AMSAA support of SRI,
the establishment of an in-house program on remote viewing
was approved by CG DARCOM in April 1978.
General discus-
sions were held among interested analysts during April to
July 1978.
In July 1978, a Project Manager was appointed by
the AMSAA Project Officer to organize and direct the in-
house effort.
In August 1978, AMSAA began conducting remote
viewing sessions.
(S-NF)
In
July
1978 the unclassified code name
GRILL FLAME was issued to replace any open reference to US
Army involvement in parapsychology. US Army interest or
work in parapsychology is classified SECRET NOFORN with a
strict need-to-know caveat operative for the GRILL FLAME
program (Appendix A) .
In September 1978, DIA guidance fur-
ther defined the classification of all GRILL FLAME papers,
reports, etc., to be SECRET, ORCON
(Dissemination and
Extraction of Information Controlled by Originator) .
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.
:
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SECRET
2.
(SECRET-NOFORN)
OBJECTIVES (U)
(S-NF )
The AMSAA
GRILL
FLAME
program was under -
taken to achieve the following two objectives:
A
first
order
challenge, confirmation and/or
rejection of the SRI remote viewing protocol (Appendix B) .
.
First
hand experience with remote viewing by
AMSAA personnel.
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SECRET
3.
(SECRET-NOFORN)
DEFINITIONS
£
(U)
3.1
(S-NF)
Remote Viewing (RV) (U).
(S-NF)
An intellectual process by which a person
perceives characteristics of a location remote from
that
person;
it does not involve any electronic sensing devices
at or focused at the target nor does it involve classical
photo interpretation of photographs obtained from overhead
or oblique means.
3.2
(S-NF )
Remote Viewer (U).
(S-NF) The person who locates, identifies and/or
describes the target.
3.3
(S-NF)
Interviewer (U).
(S-NF)
The person who interacts with the remote
viewer before, during and after the RV session.
3.4
(S-NF)
Remote Viewing Session (U) .
(S-NF)
A single attempt by the remote
viewer to
locate, identify and/or describe a target.
3.5
(S-NF)
Target Pool Selector (TPS) (U).
(S-NF)
The person
who
Selectes
the
targets
comprising
the
target pool.
This
person
does
not
participate in any other phase of the RV process.
The
individual
targets are maintained
in a
secure
container
accessible only to the TPS.
3.6
(S-NF )
Beacon Individual
(U) .
(S-NF)
The person at the target site during an RV
session.
3.7
(S-NF)
Project Officer (U).
(S-NF) The overall, responsible individual for all
aspects of the project.
3.8
(S-NF)
Project Manager (U) .
(S-NF)
The individual
designated by the Project
Officer to organize and direct the in-house RV program.
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SECRET
(S-NF) Some of the terminology defined above has
been changed from that of the original SRI protocol being
replicated.
This change in identifiers resulted from dis-
cussions among the participants to more accurately describe
the roles of the individuals and their interactions as well
as redefine the nature of the process as
a
task to be
accomplished
during
an
RV
session
rather
than as
an
experiment or demonstration.
The terminology changes are
noted as follows:
-
*
SRI
AMSAA
Subject
Inbound Experimenter
Outbound Experimenter
Experiment/Demonstration
Remote Viewer
Interviewer
Beacon Individual
Session
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4.
(SECRET-NOFORN)
SELECTION OF PARTICIPANTS
(U)
.
.
(S-NF) Upon establishment of the AMSAA GRILL FLAME
program, individuals who had previously shown an interest in
the potential application of RV were invited to participate
as a remote viewer, interviewer or beacon individual. Indi
viduals desiring to participate in these tasks were accepted.
Other individuals selected after the
initial participants
were identified were given an orientation on the phenomena
by the Project Officer and/or Project Manager and asked to
read published literature on RV.
After a familiarization
with the RV process and procedures, these individuals were
asked if they would like to participate in one of the tasks.
Only those individuals who indicated a positive desire to
participate were accepted.
i.
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UNCLASSIFIED
.
1.
.
:
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5.
(SECRET-NOFORN)
ORGANIZATION OF RV TEAMS
(S-NF)
(S-NF )
Two
teams, designated as Tl and T2,
were
established to replicate the SRI protocol. Each team con-
sisted of a remote
viewer, interviewer
and one or
more
beacon individuals.
Ten RV sessions were conducted by each
team, for a total
of 20
sessions comprising this Phase I
GRILL FLAME effort.
.
1.
(S-NF )
It was originally envisioned that the com-
position of the teams would remain the same throughout all
of the sessions.
However, that was not the case (see Sec-
tion 9, Problems
Encountered) .
The only members of the
teams that participated in all of the sessions were the
remote viewers; thus, each of the two remote viewers, desig-
nated as Sl and S2, participated in ten RV sessions.
Four
interviewers, designated as IBl through IB4, participated in
the sessions as did twelve beacon individuals, designated as
OBI through OB12.
(S-NF)
As the sessions progressed, the actual num-
ber of individuals involved was reduced to four :
the two
remote
viewers remained
the same, the
interviewers were
reduced to two in number and a remote viewer and/or inter-
viewer
would serve
as a beacon individual
for
the other
remote viewer /interviewer team.
These
four
£
individuals
became the "core group" of the AMSAA GRILL FLAME program,
and, with one individual change, remain so today.
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.
-
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6.
(SECRET-NOFORN)
£
PROCEDURES (U)
6.1
(S-NF)
Target Selection (U).
(S-NF)
A target pool
of
100
target sites was
selected by the TPS. The TPS was provided a"copy of the SRI
protocol to guide him in the target selection. The 100 tar-
gets selected were within a 30-minute drive of AMSAA; the
restricted
areas
of
APG
were specifically excluded
from
consideration.
(S-NF) The TPS went to each of the target sites he
selected, took a Polaroid picture of the site and wrote the
name and location of the site on an index card. The card
and picture were placed in an envelope. The resulting 100
envelopes were sealed, randomized and numbered by the TPS.
The target pool was maintained by the TPS in a locked file
cabinet to which he had the only key.
chosen
(S-NF )
The SRI
protocol
indicates that targets
should be distinctive, but that
the target pool
should
include more than one example of each distinctive
type.
This precludes the remote viewer from eliminating a
perception of a target because one of that type was used
before.
Sl and $2 were informed that the target pool con-
sisted of similar as well as different types of targets and
that each individual target would be used only once.
6.2
(S-NF)
Remote Viewer Session Preliminaries (U).
(S-NF) Before the first RV session was scheduled,
the remote viewers were oriented to the procedure to be
followed by the interviewers and beacon individuals.
This
orientation included discussions among the participants as
well as reading the published literature available.
This
orientation was very important, as the remote viewer needed
to understand that he should state raw perceptions; the SRI
protocol cited experience which indicated specific interpre-
tations are quite often inaccurate while the initial raw
perceptions of the remote viewer tend to be correct.
In
addition, both $1 and S2 were always encouraged to express
their feelings and ideas for enhancing all aspects of the RV
process.
(S-NF) This orientation was also important to the
interviewers as they needed to be aware of the differences
between raw perceptions and embellished descriptions in
order to be able to encourage the remote viewers to state
what they perceived.
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6.3
(S-NF )
Activity of the Beacon Individual
(U) .
(S-NF)
At the beginning of the RV session,
the
remote
viewer,
interviewer and individual
or individuals
serving as the beacon met for 5-10 minutes for a relaxed,
informal chat.
The time of this meeting, as well as the
timing for all aspects of the session, was agreed to by all
participants prior to the final scheduling of the session.
(S-NF)
The
beacon
individual (s)
departed
the
meeting and obtained the target from the TPS.
The TPS did
not select the target until the beacon individual (s) arrived
at his office.
The target was then selected by using the
random number generator program of the HP-65 calculator and
pulling that numbered envelope.
This procedure eliminated
the possibility of the beacon
individual (s) divulging any
hint of the target to the remote viewer and interviewer.
(S-NF)
After
driving
through
the
gate of the
AMSAA/BRL compound, the
beacon
individual (s) opened the
target envelope and proceeded to that location, to arrive
there at the specified time, usually 30 minutes hence, which
was the amount of time it would take to drive to the
furthest target in the pool.
The beacon individual (s) had
been instructed to stay in motion until 2-3 minutes prior to
the start time of the viewing period, park his car and then
walk up to the target location at the exact starting time so
his view of the location was fresh.
£
The beacon individ-
ual (s) was to pay attention to the target environment and
not let his mind wander, particularly to other locations.
At the end of the fifteen minute viewing period, the beacon
individual (s) returned to the location of the remote viewer
and interviewers.
6.4
(S-NF )
Remote Viewing Session (U) .
(S-NF)
After the beacon individual (s) departed to
obtain the target and proceed to the target site, the remote
viewer and interviewer had 30 minutes to relax and discuss
the procedures of the session.
At this time, the inter-
viewer encouraged the remote viewer by reemphasizing his
ability to do RV, reminding him to simply state his percep-
tions and, most importantly, creating
an
atmosphere of
confidence and trust.
(S-NF) When we first started conducting RV ses-
sions, the interviewer and remote viewer usually chatted
right up to the start time of the viewing period.
On sev-
eral occasions, other people were present in
the
room.
Through
continued
discussions
between
the
GRILL
FLAME
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participants and the SRI personnel, both of these practices
were halted midway through Phase I (see Section 10, Lessons
Learned) .
The remote viewer and interviewer were thus the
only people in the room following the departure of the
beacon individual (s). Additionally, about 15 minutes prior
to the viewing period, the remote viewer "and interviewer
were generally silent, enabling each one of them to relax in
whatever manner best suited them, e.g., reading a magazine,
relaxing with their eyes closed, etc.
(S-NF) During the 15-minute viewing period,
the
remote viewer and interviewer functioned as a team.
If
either Sl or S2 did not have any immediate sensory images,
the interviewer did not apply any pressure; rather, the
interviewer was responsible for reassuring Sl or S2 that
there was no time pressure using statements like, "we have
all the time in the world;" neither was any attempt made by
the interviewer to make the remote viewer feel that he had
to say something. When Sl or S2 had a perception of the
remote target site, the interviewer, in conversation with
the remote viewer, would try to bring out descriptive state-
ments and sketches of those perceptions, being careful not
to lead the remote viewer by adding or detracting from the
certain perceptions
at
the
perceptions or
reenforcing
expense of others.
The interviewer could suggest that the
remote viewer intellectually "move around" at the site and
describe the site more fully, to include structures, terrain
features, activities, colors, people, etc.
The
remote
those things
he
felt
viewer was encouraged to do only
comfortable doing, e.g., he could tell the interviewer he
did not want to move around a structure but preferred to
describe
his perceptions of
the
beacon
individual (s) '
actions.
If it appeared to the interviewer that the remote
viewer's perceptions were
in some
way contradictory or
inconsistent, the interviewer would attempt clarification by
asking questions or suggesting an alternate approach
to
verify the original perceptions.
(S-NF) All of the RV sessions were tape recorded.
Additionally, the interviewer provided the remote viewer
with paper and pencil to sketch his perceptions; the SRI
experience indicates that drawings tend to be more accurate
in many instances than verbalizations. The remote viewers
were encouraged to draw either in conjunction with their
verbal descriptions and/or at the end of the
15-minute
viewing period, whichever they preferred.
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6.5
(S-NF) Post-Session Analysis (U).
(S-NF )
At the end of the 15-minute viewing period
and drawing time, the remote viewer and interviewer relaxed
until the beacon individual (s) returned. At that time, the
remote viewer, interviewer and beacon individual (s) all went
back out to the target site.
This part of the procedure
served several purposes:
-
.
a.
(S-NF)
The remote
viewer
was
provided
the
opportunity of seeing first-hand how well he did.
b. (S-NF) The remote viewer began to evaluate the
types of perceptions he felt most confident about as well as
the types of imagery he was less comfortable about reveal-
ing. The interviewer also began to recognize the form of
those perceptions and could thus reorient his conversation
with the remote viewer during subsequent sessions to better
account for those factors.
c. (S-NF) The beacon individual (s) could describe
his exact actions at the site; this was particularly sig-
nificant in the sessions in which the remote viewer speci-
fically perceived the actions of the beacon individual (s) .
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7.
(SECRET-NOFORN)
EVALUATION
(U)
(S-NF) This
section of the report describes the
two evaluation methods used to assess a "statistical sig-
nificance" and/or
"success" of
a
-
set
of
remote viewing
efforts.
On the
surface, both of the methods described
below
seem
to be relatively straightforward and easily
accomplished, but, in practice, they are complex, time
consuming, and a very critical part of the RV process.
The
evaluation methods are dependent on the resulting impersonal
product of the remote viewing sessions, which turn out to be
a relatively complex set of raw impressions. These impres-
sions can be described as follows:
(1)
(S-NF)
Each session transcript averages seven
pages
in length
of
basically
single-spaced type, plus
associated drawings ..
(2)
(S-NF)
Each
transcript is comprised of an
enormous
amount of information
that the evaluator has to
sort out, which is a product of the remote viewer's mind;
usually, it is not nicely organized in clear sentences or
even phrases.
Rather,
the verbalizations represent the
remote viewer's best first time attempts to describe the
fleeting perceptions of his mind, which is a very difficult
process and one that is only fully understood by experienc-
ing it oneself. The resulting information is usually not a
picture perfect description of the target area. The remote
viewer's perceptions do not necessarily fall into neat pat-
terns nor are they normally totally accurate as some of the
remote viewer's stated perceptions correspond perfectly to
the target, some less closely and some not at all.
Addi-
tionally, the remote viewer's perceptions may be associative
in nature (e.g., heating or cooling function for a refriger-
ator) , or symbolic in nature (e.g., hexagon for a synagogue)
as opposed to literal encompassing perceptions of the target
(e.g., a red brick, structure) .
£
Lastly, as the transcripts
are "edited" only to remove identities and target sequence
clues for the evaluator, some of the information in the tran-
scripts is philosophical in nature, or represents informal
dialogue between the remote viewer and interviewer and does
not relate to the target at all.
(3)
(S-NF) The drawings made by the remote viewer
during the RV session are attached to the transcript. They
provide the evaluator with an additional source of informa-
tion to be sorted out. The drawings are usually a good
pictorial summary of the remote viewer's perceptions that
correspond to the target, as well as those that do not.
Additionally, the drawings oftentimes include information
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not related by the remote viewer during the verbalization
aspect of the session.
However, the information content of
drawings has to be evaluated in light of several
factors
consistently found during past experience :
·
(S-NF )
The
information
is
often,
but
not
always, presented in a left-right reversal pattern.
.
(S-NF) The remote viewer's
size and distance
perceptions
are not necessarily accurate, although
limited
experience has shown that the proportional error tends to be
consistent for each remote viewer.
.
(S-NF)
While the drawing may be an
accurate
representation of the target, the functional labels assigned
by the remote viewer may be inaccurate.
.
(S-NF)
Some remote viewers are better
artists
than others and their drawings thus vary accordingly.
(4) (S-NF)
rank ordering evaluation, the
evaluator had to go to each of the targets.
While at each
target, he had to read six or seven transcripts and rank
order them based on their degree of correspondence to the
target.
He had to do this at each target; this Phase I
effort had a total of 20 targets. Thus, the amount of time
that has to be devoted to the evaluation process is quite
significant.
7.1
(S-NF)
Rank Ordering Method (U).
(S-NF )
An individual who was in no way associated
with the remote viewing sessions read the 20 transcripts and
deleted from them any references to dates or previous tar-
gets.
This was done to prevent an evaluator from ordering
the transcripts chronologically determining that a given
transcript couldn't be a specific site because the remote
viewer mentioned that what he was perceiving reminded him of
the specific target he had at his previous session.
all
(S-NF)
Three evaluators were chosen to evaluate
20 edited transcripts with their associated drawings
against the 20 targets. Due to the cumbersome natue of this
task and advice provided by SRI, the transcripts and associ-
ated targets were divided into three packages:
the first
seven sessions of Sl, the first seven sessions of S2, and
the last three sessions of Sl and S2. The transcripts and
target listings were
independently randomized for each
package ..
Each evaluator was thus given three transcript/
target packages, a copy of the SRI protocol, a matrix to
-
4
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fill in their results and an instruction sheet describing
the evaluation procedure detailed in the next paragraph.
A
copy of the total packet given to the evaluators is included
as Appendix C. The details of the evaluation procedure for
each package were as follows:
1
(S-NF) The evaluator was to go to the first target
site of his choice and look around. He then read through
all the transcripts and examined associated drawings with
the goal of determining the best to worst description of
that particular target, rank ordered the transcripts 1, 2,
. . . 6, 7
(7 for the first two packages, 6 for the last
package) , best to worst match for that target, and entered
the results on the matrix.
This same procedure was carried
out at each target site. The rank ordering for each target
was done independently of the previous rank orderings, so
that, for example, a given transcript may have been chosen
first place match for more than one target if that provided
the best ordering of descriptions. After the first package
was completed, the evaluator went on to the second package
and followed the rank ordering procedure for that package.
The third package was evaluated accordingly. Each of
the
three evaluators, working independently, went through the
entire procedure for each of the three packages. All of the
original evaluation matrices are provided in Tables 7-1
through 7-3; Table 7-1 contains the matrices generated by
the evaluators for Package #1, Table 7-2 for Package #2, and
Table 7-3 for Package #3. Table 7-4 is a summary of the
results listed in the order in which the sessions actually
occurred.
(S-NF) While the results of this evaluation were
not statistically significant, defined as the probability of
the obtained sum of ranks being less than or equal to . 05,
the learning that occurred during that period was signifi-
cant, as can be somewhat implied by the results if the level
for statistical significance is lowered to 0.1 and provided
a very positive impetus for the participants to continue
their efforts.
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TABLE 7-1
(S-NF)
EVALUATION MATRICES, PACKAGE # 1
(U)
Target Site
Transcript
1
2
3
4
5.
6
7
Evaluator #1
.
A
2
7
7
4
2
7
6
B
1
6
2
2
6
4
C
4
5
4
3
5
1
5
D
3
4
3
5
4
4
E
7
1
n)
6
6
3
2
F
5
2
6
7
7
2
3
G
6
3
1
1
3
5
1
Evaluator #2
6
1
5
1
6
5
5
1
5
3
4
2
2
3
2
4
6
4
6
6
4
3
1
7
5
4
4.
7
7
3
7
7
4
2
4
2
2
3
1
7
5
6
6
5
2
3
1
Evaluator #3
AMVALEU
D
E
F
7
5
6
5
5
6
6
3
7
2
4
3
4
3
5
4
5
3
4
3
4
4
1
4
6
7
7
2
6
6
1
7
6
5
5
1
3
1
1
2
2
2
G
2
2
3
2
1
1
1
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TABLE 7-2
(S-NF)
EVALUATION MATRICES, PACKAGE # 2
(U)
Target Site
Transcript
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
Evaluator #1
6
7
7
4
1
7
3
B
2
2
4
1
5
1
C
4
3
2
6
4
(6)
2
D
5)
6
1
2
2
2
6
1
1
3
5
3
3
5
7
5
5
7
6
4
4
G
3
4
6
3
5
1
7
Evaluator #2
A
6
7
7
3
7
7
B
4
4
2
4
6
5
2
C
1
2
5
1
4
2
6
D
2
3
6
2
5
1
5
5
5
1
6
2
3
4
7
6
4
5
1
6
G
3
1
3
3
7
4
3
Evaluator #3
A
7
1
7
7
1
7
7
B
1
6
6
6
6
6
6
2
6
C
1
4
2
2
4
4)
5
3
3
2
4
4
E
3
3
1
1
3
1
1
F
2
2
4
4
1
3
2
G
5
1
5
5
5
5
5
.
--
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TABLE 7-3
(S-NF) EVALUATION MATRICES, PACKAGE #3 (U)
Target Site
Transcript
1
2
3
4
5
6
Evaluator #1
4
2
3
2
2
1
B
6
6
(4
6
1
2
6
4
5
3
6
4
3
1
1
5
3
(3
1
5
6
4
5
6
2
3
2
1
4
5
Evaluator #2
3
4
3
4
1
5
6
3
1
6
2
6
4)
5
6
1
6
2
2
6
4
2
3
1
5
1
2
5
4
3
1
2
5
3
5
4
Evaluator #3
5
4
1
6
3
3
3
3
3
3
1
4
4
6
6
1
6
6
1
5
2
5
2
2
2
2
4
2
4
1
6
1
5
4
5
5
-
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TABLE 7-4
(S-NF)
EVALUATION RESULTS (U)
Package 1
Package 2
Pakage 3
Evaluator 1
5th
7th
3rd
2nđ
5th
4th
7th
4th
2nd
1st
5th
4th
2nđ
7th
3rd
1st
6th
5th
Ist
6th
19
p =. 054
40 p =. 99
21 p =. 55
Evaluator 2
7th
7th
2nd
6th
2nd
Ist
4th
1st
1st
5th
6th
5th
4th
6th
Ist
6th
3rd
4th
Ist
2nd
33 p =. 85
27 p =. 46
14 p =. 061
Evaluator 3
7th
7th
1st
7th
4th
3rd
7th
2nd
3rd
2nd
Ist
2nd
1
3rd
6th
2nd
3rd
5th
4th
3rd
2nd
32 p =. 80
27 p =. 46
15 p =. 10
--
7 Targets/Transcripts - Sum of Ranks = 18 or less for signi-
ficance.
6 Targets/Transcripts - Sum of Ranks = 13 or less for signi-
ficance.
Significance is defined as the probability of the obtained
sum of ranks <. 05.
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7.2
(S-NF)
Principle Concepts Methods
(U) .
(S-NF )
This
evaluation
method
has
only
been
applied on a limited basis to evaluate our transcript/target
correspondence to date, but the results are encouraging.
This method provides for a less cumbersome on-site evalu-
ation procedure and also serves as a basis for analyzing the
accuracy and applicability of the data generated during the
RV session.
Several improvements in both the effectiveness
and efficiency of the evaluation process have resulted from
the use of this method:
-
-
.
a.
(S-NF)
The
evaluator
reads
the
transcripts
prior to being provided with the identity of the target
sites and determines the principle concepts
(PC) of each
transcript. The PC for each transcript are then listed on
an evaluation matrix. Thus, during the actual evaluation at
the target sites, the evaluator only has to deal with a 1-2
page summary of the transcripts rather than continuously
reading several transcripts,
each averaging about
seven
pages in length.
b. (S-NF) The rank ordering method forces the
evaluator to not only compare each transcript to the target
site, but also to compare the transcripts to each other.
The PC method allows
the evaluator to rate the corres-
pondence of each PC of the transcript to the target site,
one PC at a time, without having to go through the process
of comparing the transcripts against each other.
c. (S-NF) The evaluator can make his final deter-
mination of transcript/target match after he has visited one
of the target sites by statistically evaluating the PC cor-
respondence ratings and using those results in concert with
the drawings and any other information he may have to come
to a final decision, to include going back to the target
site. This relieves the pressure on the evaluator, present
in the rank ordering method, to make a determination of
final match at the same time.
d. (S-NF) Even after their use during the evalu-
ation process, the PC matrices are a valuable source of
information to all of the participants in the remote viewing
process.
The correspondence ratings allow the remote viewer
to see how his feelings about the PC compare with their
evaluation and to identify which types of his impressions
tend to be more accurate than others. This type of analysis
is also helpful to the interviewer in being able to suggest
avenues
of approach to the remote viewing during the RV
sessions.
Additionally, this analysis of PC correspondence
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can serve as a guideline in determining target characteris-
tics that are more physically interesting than others; this
type of information is valuable in developing target pools
and particularly in evaluating the reliability and accuracy
of remote
viewer
impressions in actual application situa-
tions
!
(S-NF )
The only evaluation done to date using this
method was conducted by a member of the SRI staff in March
1979.
The randomized target/transcript package consisted of
five of the six sessions included in the previously men-
tioned third package; the 6th session was not included as it
did not meet all of the criteria of the protocol (see Sec-
tion 9, Problems Encountered) .
The results of this evalua-
tion, based on the procedures described in the following
paragraph, are provided in Table 7-5. Figure 7.1 presents a
graphical interpretation of the results of the evaluation on
Table 7-5.
The steps of this evaluation procedure were as
follows :
a.
(S-NF) The evaluator
first reads a transcript
at his work site and determines the principle concepts (PC)
stated throughout the transcript.
He then listed the PC for
this transcript on an evaluation matrix (Figure 7.2).
He
then followed the same procedure for the other transcripts.
At this step has has an evaluation matrix for each tran-
script.
b. (S-NF) The evaluator made additional copies of
the five matrices so that he had several sets of evaluation
matrices one of which is to be used at each target.
Thus,
his correspondence analysis at each target was done inde-
pendently of his analyses at any of the other targets.
c. (S-NF) The evaluator then went to the first
target site of his choosing and, using one set of evaluation
matrices, evaluated the correspondence to the site of each
PC of the five separate transcripts on a scale of 0-10. He
then put this set of evaluation matrices aside and went on
to the second target site.
He followed this correspondence
evaluation procedure at each of the remaining target sites.
Upon finishing the evaluation, he had five completed sets of
evaluation matrices.
d. (S-NF)
The
evaluator
then
calculated.
the
appropriate statistics, including the mean and variance, of
all the PCs of each transcript for each target.
Table 7-5
is a summary of these calculated mean values.
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TABLE 7-5
(S-NF)
EVALUATION RESULTS (U)
!
TARGET
*
TRANSCRIPT
Florist
Shop
Diner
High
School
Community
Services
Bldg
Marina
A
6.80
4.20
3.80
4.30
0.60
B
3.33
7.75
4.00
5.92 .
1.83
C
2.86
3.29
5.52
3.81
2.43
D
4.29
4.59
2.71
5.47
1.76
F
2.38
2.69
4.46
2.38
6.62
.
Correct Match
Shift in choice due to comparison of
drawing to target
1
1
*
Targets have been reordered to show results
along the diagonal
3Q
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1.0-
SECRET-
TARGET CORRESPONDENCE
0.8-
0: ACTUAL TARGET OF SET
.: OTHER TARGET IN SET OF 5
0.6-
D
31
A: FLORIST SHOP
B: DINER
0.4.
A
C: HIGH SCHOOL
1
8
C
IAD
0.2
OF
F
D: COMMUNITY SVE BIDG
F: MARINA
OF
0
A
B
C
D
Juk-
25 APR-79
TARGET DESCRIPTION
Figure 7.1
(S-NF)
Target Matching to Principle Characteristics of Target Description
. i
(U)
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.
UNCLASSIFIED
8
9
32
10
11
12
13
11
15
16
17
18
19.
20
22
23:
Figure 7.2 (U)
Target
1
2
3
4
5
0
Concept
3
5
6
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SET
TRANSCRIPT
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e. (S-NF)
The results of the target/transcript
correspondence based on the calculated mean values were then
reviewed utilizing the drawings attached to the transcripts
in order to establish a final rank ordering of each tran-
script with each target.
The resulting five out of five
correct matches obtained in this evaluation are indicated on
Table 7-5 by blocks.
(S-NF )
It
is
planned to have three in-house
evaluators utilize this
-
evaluation procedure on the same
five targets/transcripts.
The results should prove both
interesting and quite useful.
-
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UNCLASSIFIED
--
.
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8.
(SECRET-NOFORN)
SPECIAL SESSIONS
(U)
(S-NF) This section briefly summarizes the special
sessions that were held in addition to the 20 replication
sessions discussed thus far.
The
transcripts from
the
majority of these sessions have not been edited or formally
evaluated and are thus not included in this report.
They
are available to those . individuals with a need to know as
determined by the Project Officer or Project Manager.
8.1
(S-NF) Canada (U) .
(S-NF) Four sessions were conducted at SRI with an
SRI consultant as the remote viewer, an SRI staff member as
the interviewer and an AMSAA GRILL FLAME participant serving
as
the beacon individual. The beacon individual was on a
business/vacation trip in Canada over a two week period in
August 1978. At the time these sessions were conducted, the
remote viewer and beacon individual had never met; the
remote viewer was told the beacon individual's name and
place of employment, provided with a copy of his Pentagon
pass, and informed that he was in Canada. After the first
session had been held, the remote viewer requested and was
provided with the beacon individual's date and place of
birth. No other information was given to the remote viewer
during the course of the sessions.
(S-NF)
At
the
predetermined
times
for
the
sessions, the beacon
individual
took
notes, photographs
and/or made sketches of his location.
The sessions were
tape recorded and transcribed as usual; copies of the edited
transcripts and any notes or drawings made by the remote
viewer during the sessions were sent to AMSAA for evalua-
tion.
(S-NF) The
package
was
first
evaluated
in
September 1978.
Four AMSAA individuals were provided with
copies of the four transcripts and one each of the targets,
with their task being to rank order the four transcripts 1
to 4, best to worst match, to their one target. The results
of this evaluation were not statistically significant.
How-
ever, it should be noted that the last three sessions held
after the viewer was provided the beacon individual's date
and place of birth were ranked Ist, Ist, and 2nd. The first
session received a 4th place ranking; a possible explanation
for this occurrence is that the beacon individual had his
family with him and his son has the same name as his.
The
data obtained during the session correlated with a possible
location of his son at that time (as the son was unaware of
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the experiment there is no precise record of where the son
was at the time of the first session) .
(S-NF)
In
February
1979,
these sessions
were
reevaluated by
four different AMSAA
individuals with
the
.
addition of two photographs provided by
the beacon indi-
vidual of one of the target locations.
The results were
identical to the initial 'evaluation.
8.2
(S-NF)
Sweden
(U) .
(S-NF)
Three sessions were held in October 1978
with an AMSAA GRILL FLAME participant on a business trip to
Sweden serving as the beacon individual.
SI participated in
two sessions, S2 in one session and IB4 was the interviewer
in all three sessions.
These transcripts have not been
edited or formally evaluated; informal evaluation based on
verbal and written descriptions provided by the beacon indi-
vidual
indicated considerable correlation
with
the data
provided by the remote viewers.
8.3
(S-NF)
Egypt (U).
(S-NF)
In November 1978, two sessions were held
with an AMSAA GRILL FLAME participant on a business trip to
Egypt serving as the beacon individual. Sl and IB4 were the
remote viewer and interviewer in both sessions.
These tran-
scripts have not been edited or formally evaluated; informal
evaluation based on verbal and pictorial descriptions pro-
vided
by
the
beacon
individual
indicated
considerable
correlation with the data provided by the remote viewer.
8.4
(S-NF )
Special Participants
(U) .
(S-NF )
Two special sessions were conducted, one in
October 1978 and one in January 1979, with two individuals
outside of the core group who had requested to particpate in
a session as remote viewers. These two sessions were con-
ducted in accordance with the procedures detailed in Section
6 of this report.
(S-NF)
S3's session was held in October 1978 with
IB4 as the interviewer and OB9 as the beacon individual.
This was the first time S3 had participated in a controlled
RV program.
While the results of this session have never
been formally evaluated, the participants, particularly S3,
were extremely pleased with the high degree of correlation
of the session imagery with the target site. S3's personal
insights into the process as it worked for him, which he
termed "relaxed concentration," were extremely valuable to
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the core group and we have been most fortunate in having S3
continue his association with the project.
-
-
(S-NF) S4's session was held in January 1979 with
IB4 as the interviewer and OB10 as the beacon individual.
S4 had previously been involved in an RV experience, but not
under the controlled conditions of the GRILL FLAME program.
The results of this session have not been formally evalu-
ated; IB4 and OBll were encouraged by the results, but S4's
reactions were mixed and marked by a high degree of disap-
pointment with his poor ability to accurately verbalize his
perceptions in the transcript.
S4 was also frustrated by
his not summarizing his perceptions at the end of the ses-
sion for the record. S4 has also continued his association
with the program and has indicated his desire to participate
in future sessions.
(S-NF) Two
other sessions were conducted during
this time period in which an individual requested to serve
as a beacon individual.
Both of these session departed from
the established procedure in several ways:
(1)
(S-NF) The established target pool
was not
used; rather the beacon individual selected his own target.
(2)
(S-NF )
S1
participated
in
both
sessions,
however, at the time of the first session, the individuals
normally
filling the role of the
interviewer
were
not
available, so an individual never before associated with the
program was placed into that role.
IB4 was the interviewer
at the second session.
(3)
(S-NF) The first session was conducted on the
spur of the
moment,
the second session was
rescheduled
several times before it finally occurred.
(S-NF) Both of these sessions were conducted under
circumstances that were previously found to not necessarily
be conductive to achieving good remote viewing results.
While the results of the sessions had their good points as
well as their bad points, these sessions were most valuable
for the lessons learned in how not to conduct an RV session.
8.5
(S-NF)
Target-of-the-day Sessions (U).
(S-NF) Three target-of-the-day sessions were held
in November-December 1978, two with Sl and one with S2.
IB4
was the interviewer in all of the sessions. These sessions
were held after the completion of the official 20 sessions
and were conceived of by the core group for the purpose of
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gaining further experience and insight into the RV process
before progressing into Phase II of the program.
(S-NF) The target-of-the-day
sessions
basically
followed the procedures detailed in Section 6,
with
the
following exceptions:
(1)
(S-NF) No' beacon individual participated in
the sessions.
In two of the sessions, the TPS randomly
selected the
target envelope and merely placed it on his
desk, rather than giving it to a beacon individual (s) as
usual.
In the third session, the TPS did not select the
target envelope until the session was completed.
(2)
(S-NF )
£
Immediately following the session, the
remote viewer and interviewer obtained the target envelope
from the TPS and proceeded to the target site, rather than
waiting for the usual return of a beacon individual (s) .
(S-NF) The results of these three sessions have
never been evaluated by anyone other than the participants.
Aside from having removed the constraints of being "for the
official record" or waiting for nebulous feedback from a
distant
beacon individual,
these
sessions provided the
participants with the opportunity to explore new approaches
to the interaction between the remote viewer and interviewer
as well as concentrate on the correlation between the "true"
perceptions and the verbalized perceptions with each other
and the target site. Additionally, these sessions paved the
way for approaching the type of sessions scheduled for Phase
II.
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9. (SECRET-NOFORN)
PROBLEMS ENCOUNTERED (U)
(S-NF) The procedures detailed
in
Section
6
describe the perfectly coordinated RV session from target
selection to post-session analysis.
However, the sessions
conducted during this Phase I effort did not necessarily go
as planned. This section of the report deals with the prob-
lems encountered over the course of Phase I.
(S-NF) The problems related in this section can be
divided into two categories:
those that impact the effi-
ciency of the participants and those that impact the overall
quality of the product.
The ad hoc nature of this effort
involved
a broad spectrum of individuals, each of
whom
approached this task with their
own personal beliefs or
disbeliefs, levels of expectation and levels of insight and
knowledge.
The SRI protocol that guided us throughout this
program merely outlined the process; only after becoming a
part of the process did we even begin to ralize the impact
of people, places, events, attitudes and a whole host of
other
factors on the whole process.
Thus, it is the intent
of this section of the report to be frank and open in stat-
ing the problems we encountered during this phase so that
the next group of people desiring to undertake a similar
effort may avoid some of the same pitfalls.
9.1 (S-NF)
£
Problems Impacting on Participant Effici-
ency (U)
(S-NF) As noted in Section 5, two teams, Tl and
T2, were originally established to participate in this Phase
I replication effort. Over time, these teams evolved into a
four-person core group.
This evolution resulted from the
interactions of the events and attitudes discussed below:
(1)
(S-NF) The availability of the participants
was a pressing problem, due to travel schedules, leave time,
meetings, etc.
Quite often, the project officer was not
notified of the participants' nonavailability until shortly
before the session preliminaries were to begin.
It then
became a very frustrating rush to find a replacement among
the limited number of individuals cleared to participate in
the program.
(2) (S-NF) Several participants were unwilling to
devote an entire afternoon to participating in a session.
One participant refused to go back out to the target site
for post-session analyses; he said he had more important
things to do. From that point on, sessions were not held
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unless everyone agreed in advance to be part of the entire
process.
(3) (S-NF)
The attitude of one of the prime par-
ticipants was particularly distressing to the other members
of the team as well as the project officer. " Instead of dis-
cussing his opinions and feelings prior to the start of the
sessions, he began his first session by stating he did not
want to have his name associated with the program in any
way, questioning the need for the administrative details of
the session and, in general, creating an atmosphere of
confusion and antagonism.
This individual was aware of the
fact, as was everyone else, that any written record of GRILL
FLAME would identify participants only by an alpha-numeric
code, never by name; however, in order to get the session
started, the participants agreed to destroy the session
tapes after they were transcribed, thus removing all mention
of
names.
That
was perhaps
the
worst
decision made
throughout the program, as we destroyed any concrete proof
of the integrity of the sessions. Unfortunately, we did not
recognize that fact until we had conducted well over half of
the sessions.
The team members concluded that this
individual was not very empathetic to the program and his
active participation was considerably reduced.
(4)
£
(S-NF) Several of the participants expressed
the feeling that they could not justify to themselves or
their supervisors the time they spent on GRILL FLAME in lieu
of other work.
(5)
(S-NF)
One
of
the
participants
rightly
informed his office where he would be; unfortunately, he did
not tell them that he couldn't be disturbed.
Consequently,
the ensuing session turned into chaos as other people walked
in and out
to
see the one participant, destroying
the
concentration
of
the
remote
viewer
and
reducing
the
effectiveness of the session as a whole.
(6)
(S-NF) The general attitude and well-being of
all session participants impacts on the conduct and outcome
of
the sessions.
Several participants have come into a
session with the events of the morning, the events of the
next day, personal problems, etc., being their primary
concern.
In most cases, this was a reasonable and natural
preoccupation; however, there were a few cases in which the
concerns
totally overshadowed the intent of the session.
The sessions conducted under those circumstances were not as
"successful" from the participants points of view as other
sessions conducted under more relaxed circumstances.
The
participants' reluctance to say they did not really feel up
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to participating in a session was overcome as the sessions
progressed ;
thus,
sessions
were postponed until
everyone
felt comfortable about participating.
9.2 (S-NF)
Location
(U) .
(S-NF)
Sessions were held in any reasonable loca-
tion available at the time:
Bldg 392 Conference Room, Bldg
328
Conference Room, Bldg
390
Conference
Room, Bldg 394
Conference Room, or any office
available
all
of the
conference rooms
were booked.
The
lack
of a
dedicated
location presented several problems :
(1) (S-NF) Even though office doors were closed
and signs were posted on conference rooms that a meeting was
in progress, interruptions still occurred. These interrup-
tions broke the concentration of the remote viewer and
interviewer and it was very difficult to resume a session
after an interruption. Also, the fact that two people were
occupying a large conference room
was questioned upon
occasion; on one such occasion, the participants were asked
to leave so a larger group of people could use the room.
(2) (S-NF) Particularly in an office situation,
telephones
and conversations were very distracting.
For
instance,
in
one session,
the remote
viewer found
it
extremely
difficult to concentrate on anything but
the
animated discussion going on outside of the office;
10
minutes of the
session were thus unproductive until
the
discussion quieted down and the remote viewer could con-
centrate on the session.
(3) (S-NF) The room environment affected each of
the remote viewers differently.
For instance, Sl found one
particular room to be quite distracting due to its cluttered
nature and extreme brightness.
S2 was not as affected by
content
of the room,
but
was more susceptible
to
room
temperature.
(S-NF)
In November 1978, the location problem was
solved with the hookup of the trailer located outside of
Bldg 367.
The trailer contains a large conference table and
chairs as well as a comfortable couch and chair.
Addi-
tionally, it has its own heat and air conditioning system
and no telephone. GRILL FLAME has first priority on use of
the trailer; however, it is used as a conference room by
other AMSAA personnel as needed and available.
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9.3
(S-NF )
Equipment (U).
(S-NF )
In
order
to
start
the
sessions,
a
dictophone tape recorder was
borrowed
from one of
the
offices in AMSAA, as the unit ordered for this project had
not yet come in. The borrowed unit broke down during one of
the early sessions and had to be sent out for repairs.
SRI
lent us a Sony recorder to use until ours arrived, as we
were having a difficult time finding another
available
recorder in AMSAA.
Our dictaphone unit finally arrived in
November 1978 and appears to be working very well.
(S-NF) The original
60-minute cassette tapes
available through the supply system presented no problem.
Midway through our Phase I effort, the tapes began to be
supplied by a second manufacturer.
The quality of these
tapes left much to be desired; we lost an entire session
because the tape unwound all through the recorder.
This
malfunction was not noted by the participants until
10
minutes of the session had elapsed and, at that point,
nothing could be done to correct the problem. In order to
make sure the problem was not with the recorder, we tested
several more of those particular tapes along with privately
purchased tapes; again, the problem occurred only with the
one manufacturer's tapes.
We thus special ordered some
reputable 60-minute tapes and have had no recurrence of the
problem.
9.4 (S-NF )
Special Case (U).
(S-NF)
In one of the latter sessions, the beacon
individual
was
several minutes late in arriving at the
target location; he was unfamiliar with the location, had
gotten lost and had to stop to get directions.
Conse-
quently, when the session started, he was still driving to
the target location.
The remote viewer perceived the area
the beacon individual was driving by at that time and it was
that area he described during the session.
Unfortunately,
it was not the target location.
Thus, the remote viewer's
descriptions in no way corresponded to the actual target
location,
although they corresponded very
well
to
the
"passing" location of the beacon individual at the start of
the session.
Unfortunately, the evaluation procedure does
not allow for
this type of occurrence.
After discussing
this matter
with SRI it was decided to eliminate this
session
from the principle concept evaluation procedure,
described in Section 7.2, as it did not conform to the
procedural requirements for an RV session.
.
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JONG
10.
(SECRET-NOFORN)
LESSONS LEARNED (U)
(S-NF) The RV process is very dynamic and personal
in nature; however, the elements that comprise these facets
of the process are not easily incorporated into a procedural
protocol.
When we first started this Phase I effort, we
were not aware of the broad spectrum of influences, inter-
actions or their impact on the process.
Only through the
experience of being part of the process, along with the
interaction among
the participants and between
the par-
ticipants and SRI, did we even begin to realize the dynamics
of the process. This section attempts to describe the most
significant realizations, our efforts to deal with them on a
personal basis, and our efforts to incorporate them in our
approach to the process.
-
10.1
(S-NF) Rise Time (U) .
(S-NF )
Rise time is essentially the time between
the final scheduling of an RV session with a remote viewer
and the session; the remote viewer is told he will be
participating in an RV session at a specific time in the
near future, i.e., two days from now at 1300 hours.
During
this rise time, the remote viewer prepares himself for the
session, knowing precisely that his
time of
"heightened
awareness" for remote viewing will occur at the stated time
on the scheduled day. Thus, it was found to be essential
that the session start at the stated time. When a session
was held on time, a remote viewer's "heightened awareness"
tended to stay high for several minutes and then gradually
started to taper off. However, if a session was delayed for
whatever reason, the remote viewer's "hightened awareness"
tended to drop dramatically after the scheduled time had
passed, noticeably affecting the quantity and quality of the
remote viewing perceptions.
This rise time process
was
found to be equally applicable to the interviewer.
(S-NF) Once having recognized the importance of
rise time to the RV process, sessions were very carefully
scheduled to meet the availability of the participants.
Although the need never arose during the remaining sessions
of this effort, all participants have agreed to cancel any
session
in
which such a
delay. occurs.
The agreement
continues at the time of this writing.
10.2
(S-NF )
Quiet Time (U).
(S-NF) Quiet time is the 15-minute period prior to
the start of the session.
During this period, the remote
viewer and interviewer basically do what they feel is best
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for
their individual relaxation,
i. e., they are generally
silent ;
they may either sit
and relax with
their
eyes
closed, read a magazine, etc.
(S-NF) The concept of quiet time has become part
of our approved protocol for RV; however, it was not even a
consideration when this effort was started.
During the
first
few sessions, the remote
viewer
and
interviewer
-
usually
conversed right up to the viewing period and, on
several occasions, other people were also present in the
room.
It was only after Sl and S2 expressed their dissat-
isfaction with this arrangement did we recognize the need
for a quiet period without any observers.
All subsequent
sessions allowed for this quiet time for the remote viewer
and interviewer and no longer allowed anyone else to be
present
in
the room after the
beacon individual (s) had
departed. On those special sessions where the beacon indi-
vidual was at a distant location or not even a necessary
part of the session, the remote viewer and interviewer were
the only participants.
10.3
(S-NF)
Remote Viewer/Interviewer Interaction (U) .
(S-NF) The concept of the remote viewer and inter-
viewer functioning as a team during an RV session has become
an integral part of the RV process and protocols.
While the
initial RV teams were set up to hopefully reflect a certain
degree of compatibility, the natural relationships
that
developed, and in a large part led to the formation of the
core
group, more clearly reflect
the interpersonal and
emotional undercurrents of
the
interaction
between
the
remote viewer and interviewer that
impact so significantly
on the entire RV process.
(1) (S-NF)
First and foremost, the remote viewer
and interviewer must respect and trust each other.
While
this does not mean they have to be the best of friends, it
does mean they have to communicate with each other honestly
and openly in order to establish the rapport that works best
for them.
(2)
(S-NF )
Both the remote viewer and interviewer
have to have a positive outlook about RV and work together
to maintain a success oriented rapport.
(3)
(S-NF )
The interviewer must be sensitive to
what
the
remote viewer says during a session and, more
importantly, to what he says to the remote viewer.
This is
discussed in more detail in Section 10.4.
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(4)
(S-NF) The interviewer
has to allow
each
remote viewer to develop his own style of remote viewing,
e.g., keeping his eyes closed, turning out the lights, etc.
Basically, the interviewer has to be flexible in order
to
insure the remote viewer is as comfortable in a session as
is possible.
.
10.4
(S-NF)
Remote 'Viewer /Interviewer Interaction
Specifically During the RV Session (U) .
(S-NF )
As noted above, the interviewer must
be
sensitive to what he says to the remote viewer and to what
the remote viewer says during a session.
We have found the
following to be helpful in this regards with our core group
of four :
(1)
(S-NF )
The
vocabulary of
the
interviewer
should not include negative words or words which cue or lead
the
remote
viewer
or
reinforce his specific, seemingly
analytical, statements.
For example, the interviewer should
not mention words like "failure," "miss," "experiment," etc.
(2)
(S-NF) The interviewer should
provide guid-
ance to the remote viewer in the form of suggestions or
directions rather than asking questions, although there are
times where questions cannot be avoided.
The suggestion
approach has two very positive benefits.
First, implicit in
the suggestion is the knowledge that the remote viewer is
capable of doing what is suggested by the interviewer. For
instance, the suggestion "approach the structure and tell me
about it" is a much more positive and reassuring approach
than the question "why don't you approach the structure and
tell me if you see anything?"
By the more positive
approach, the interviewer is letting the remote viewer know
he has confidence in his ability and the remote viewer
responds accordingly.
Secondly, questions apparently force
the remote viewer to have to consciously decide if he wants
to answer the question at all and, if he agrees to answer,
he then has to provide himself with the reassurance to do
what the interviewer has requested.
In the case where
questions cannot be avoided, either due to the nature of the
interactive conversation or because the interviewr can't
verbalize what he wants to say any other way, they should be
phrased very carefully to avoid forcing the remote viewer to
become less descriptive and more analytical or feel as if he
is obligated to answer
and thus
possibly
loose some
additional remote viewing perceptions.
(3) (S-NF) The interviewer has to
to
each
remote
viewer
learn to react
individually.
For
instance,
the
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interviewer
learns through the remote viewer's tone of
voice, facial expression, etc., whether he has confusing or
contradictory imagery or whether he is not perceiving any
imagery at all. What the interviewer says at this time, or
if he even says anything at all, depends on his knowing the
remote viewer's reaction patterns. This is something the
interviewer learns only through experience and is different
for each interviewer/remote viewer team.
This type of
recognition also occurs on the part of the remote viewer;
for instance, the remote viewer can tell if the interviewer
is hesitant about suggesting a new approach and may even
request that the interviewer do so. In our experience in
Phase I, the interplay described here was developing between
IB4 and Sl and IB4 and S2.
The latter sessions of Phase I
reflect this development.
(4)
(S-NF) The interviewer has to learn to keep
quiet!
While this was alluded to above, it is important
enough to be mentioned again here. Too much direction by
the interviewer may break or reduce the viewer's concen-
tration or cause him to be too analytical.
10.5
(S-NF) Tape Recording (U).
(S-NF) As noted in the procedure for an RV ses-
sion, the entire viewing period and subsequent conversation
while drawing by the remote viewer is tape recorded. Actu-
ally, during the initial sessions of Phase I, only the
remote viewing segment was taped; the recorder was turned
off when the remote viewer was drawing, having completed the
vebalization of his perceptions.
Over time, we realized
that the remote viewer often mentioned new perceptins while
he was drawing and also tended to more fully describe the
spatial relationships of his perceptions as he drew.
Thus,
the original taping procedure was modified to taping what
truly comprises the RV session:
the verbalization period
and the drawing period.
(S-NF) A critical lesson learned in regard to tape
recording the sessions concerns the tapes themselves.
As
mentioned in the section on problems encountered during this
effort, the participants originally agreed to destroy the
session tapes after they were transcribed. It was, at best,
a bad decision, as we managed to thus destroy any concrete
proof of our efforts and, essentially, our integrity as
participants in this process. The situation was eventually
corrected and will never occur again; unfortunately, we can
never recover the 15 sessions taped and destroyed prior to
that recognition.
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10.6
(S-NF )
Role of the Beacon Individual
(S-NF) .
-IF
(S-NF )
While a lot of attention has been paid to
the
functions,
attitudes and interactions of the remote
viewer and interviewer, very little attention has been paid
to the influence of the beacon individual on the RV process.
Just as the timing of the, beacon individual is important to
the RV session, so are his attitudes towards and active
interaction with the process.
(1) (S-NF) Especially for
introductory sessions,
we
have found that the beacon individual has to have a
positive rapport with the remote viewer and interviewer.
The remote viewer and interviewer depend on the beacon
individual to arrive at the target site on time and interact
with the target as prescribed.
Thus, a positive rapport
between all of the participants reassures the remote viewer
and interviewer that the beacon individual will accomplish
his mission and, at the same time, the beacon individual
knows he is playing an important part in the RV process, not
just wasting his time driving and standing around at a site.
(2)
(S-NF) While we don't necessarily understand
the reasons why, we have some interesting thoughts on the
activity of the beacon individual at the site during the
15-minute viewing period.
In several instances, the beacon
individual consciously tried to "send" information to the
remote viewer. Our experience has shown this technicque to
be totally unsuccessful.
Rather, the remote viewer tended
to perceive the more natural actions of the beacon individ-
ual, such as the beacon individual fiddling with the camera,
waving to someone he knew, or concentrating on an object at
the site of personal interest which was not really a perma-
nent part of the site.
during
(3) (S-NF)
The attitude of the beacon individual
the post-session feedback analysis phase is very
important.
We had several instances in which the beacon
individual was more concerned with the guidance not given by
the interviewer and/or the perceptions not related by the
remote viewer rather than the information that was obtained
during the session.
This type of attitude does nothing to
encourage the remote viewer or
interviewer.
It does,
however, reinforce our thoughts on the importance of the
beacon individual, particularly during the learning phases
of remote viewing.
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10.7 (S-NF) Evaluation Process (U).
(S-NF) The evaluation process is truly an art.
However, in order to recognize the fullest potential of the
process, the evaluators must be aware of the complexities,
peculiarities and interactions of the total RV process, some
of which were related in Section 7 of this report.
This
awareness develops from 'reading available literature and
established protocols, interacting with remote viewers and
interviewers in order to understand their perspectives and
feelings, and actually doing evaluations of
RV
sessions.
Knowledgeable, experienced evaluators are critical
to the
potential of the RV process.
(S-NF) The three AMSAA evaluators who participated
in the Phase I rank-ordering evaluation process were pro-
vided a copy of the SRI protocol, a one page instruction
sheet which detailed the evaluation procedure, and the
target/transcript packages. They had no interaction with
the remote viewers, interviewers or beacon individuals.
Basically, they
had practically no exposure to
the RV
process at all.
Under those circumstances, their results
were quite remarkable.
(S-NF) Having recognized the criticality of the
evaluation process
and particularly the need
to
have
knowledgeable, experienced evaluators, five interested AMSAA
analysts were asked if they would like to participate in
GRILL FLAME to form a pool of evaluators. All accepted the
offer and are now in the early stage of familiarizing
themselves with the RV process. It is hoped that they will
not only bring a sense of understanding to the evaluation
process currently used, but that they will also provide new
insights and ideas that can be used to formulate less
frustrating and more effective and efficient evaluation
methodologies.
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11.
(SECRET-NOFORN)
SUMMARY
(U)
(S-NF)
AMSAA's Phase
I GRILL FLAME
efforts were
undertaken to replicate the SRI RV protocol
and to gain
in-house experience in RV. /Our replication of the protocol
did not
result
1.
in
statistical
significance, but, more
importantly, it did
result
in
a
significant amount of
learning on the part of all of the participants as well as a
recognition of the criticality of the evaluation process.
Additionally, we learned a great deal about ourselves.
(S-NF)
This learning should not be construed to
include an explanation of how the RV process works or an
assessment of its utility.
Rather, this learning phase
fostered among all of the participants
a sense of the
potential of the phenomena and, most of all, an appreciation
of that which remains to be learned.
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UNCLASSIFIED
.
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APPENDIX A
(SECRET-NOFORN)
GRILL FLAME PROJECT DESIGNATION TWX (U)
-
CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, HQDA
(DAMI-ISH) , dated 7 Jul 78
REVIEW ON :
7 July 1999
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RTTE YUW RUEADWD2240 1861806-SSSS -- RULNAPG.
ZNY SSSSS
...
R. 051630Z JUL 78
FM DA WASHDC//DAMI-ISH/!
TO. RUEKUCS/DIA WASHDC//DT//
RUKEDAR/CDRDARCOM ALEXANDRIA VA//DRCDE///
RULNAPG/CDRAMSAA APG MD//DRCSY-DD//TL
RUCDGDA/CDRMIA REDSTONE ARSENAL AL//DRDMI-YEYY
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BT
SECRET NOFORN
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SUBJECT:" ISSUANCE OF UNCLASSIFIED NICKNAME -- GRILL FLAME (U)
(5/NOFORN) . RECENTLY INCREASED HIGH LEVEL INTEREST IN MILITARY
PARAPSYCHOLOGY/REMOTE VIEWING (PY/RV), ALONG WITH INHERENT SENSI-
TIVITIES, NOW WARRANT USE OF AN UNCLASSIFIED NICKNAME. THE UNCLASSI-
-
FIED NICKNAME GRILL FLAME WILL REPLACE ANY OPEN REFERENCE TO US ARMY
INVOLVEMENT IN PY/RV RESEARCH, EXPERIMENTS,"APPLICATION, ETC. THE
FACT OF US ARMY INTEREST OR WORK IN PY/RV IS CLASSIFIED SECRET
1
NOFORN. "FROM THE US ARMY STANDPOINT, A STRICT NEED-TO-KNOW CAVEAT
IS NOW OPERATIVE IN ANY SITUATION INVOLVING PY/RV. XGDS-2, 31 DEC
2008.
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APPENDIX B
SRI PROTOCOL
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Wish regard to replication of our standard remote viewing protocols,
the basic outline is as given in our tutorial paper, "A Perceptual
Chammmel for Information Transfer over Kilometer Distances: Historical
Perspective and Recent Research, " H. Puthoff and R. Tang, Proc. IEEE,
pp. 329-354, March 1976 (4 copies enclosed). The elements of the
protocol, each of which I address below consist of (s) target pool
€
SRI International
57
UNCLASSIFIED
333 Ravenswood Ave. . Mento Park, Califomia 94025 . (415) 325-6200 . Cable: STANRES, Menlo Park . TWX: 910-373-1246
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UNCLASSIFIED
selection; (3) subject orientation; (c) outbound experimentar behavior;
-
(d) inbound experimentar behavior; (e) post- experiment feedback;
(f) judging procedure.
(a) Target Pool Selection: To carry out an experimental series of,
say, a experiments with a subject, a list of outdoor targets > =
should be prepared in advance by an experimenter who will not istaract
with the subject or experiment after that. The targets should be
chosen to be distinctive, but not necessarily distinct from each other;
that is, rather than a collection of mondescript street corners one
should select bridges, towers, fountains, gardens, plazas, etc., so
that a judge could i= principle recognize targets on the basis of
correct, but sketchy descriptions. On the other hand, once having
chosen a fountain-type target, there should be several fountain targets;
for a bridge target, several bridge cargers, etc., so that you avoid
the subject strategy of "I had a tower yesterday, so it can's be a
tower today." In fact, the subject should be told explicitly that the
targets are not chosen to be orthogonal to each other.
When the target list is made, each target location should be written
on a card and placed in an envelope, the envelopes randomised and then
cimbered so as to lose all track of a key. These should then be stored
in a secure safe or similar container.
.
-
C
With regard to whether a target is replaced in the pool after use,
there are two ways to go. The preferable one is to not replace is,
but keep near-replacement statistics by simply having a very large pool
with several similar targets, or else replacing a used fountain target
with another fountain target. The problem with straight replacement
is that the subject would, upon becoming aware of a mental image of a
previous carger, be biased to reject is as memory. Therefore, even
though straight replacement makes some psychologists happy, it is
actually an artifact-producing procedure.
(b) Subject Orientation: Before the experiment, the subject should be
shown some previous remote viewing results with one goal is mind -- to
gec across the idea that one should, as best as possible, report raw
perception rather than analysis, since the former tamds to be correct
and the latter is almost always wrong. Figures 4 and 6 in the TEEE
paper are good examples. In Figure 4 the subject had absolutely no
concept of a pedestrian overpass, but simply saw a pattern of receding
squares; the target in Figure 6 with passable drawings was interpreted
as a restaurant; even the correctly dimensioned pools of water is
Figure 3 were misinterpreted as purification plant pools rather than
recreational swimming pools. Reading of our book Mind Reach (Targ and
Puthoff, Delacorte Press, 1977) provides a good background, as we go
'ato this aspecs in much more detail than we could afford in our
\chmical papers. They need to "get it" that a rounded piece of blue
.
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metal is just that, and they shouldn't try to figure out whether it is
a car fender before they say anything. Remind the subject that isagiza-
tion constitutes noise in the channel, and therefore the closer he can
get to raw uninterpreced imagery, the better. To have success in the
above, the best guideline we have found is to choose as subjects
individuals who are self-confident, not afraid to be wrong, uninhibited,
etc. No psychological tast we have cried (and we have"tried them all)
is as successful as the above subjective assessment when it comes to
choosing subjects. Artist types used to unevaluated observation are
among the most successful.
-
-
(c) Outbound Experimenter Behavior: At the start of an experimental
session, the inbound and outbound experimentars and subject should
rendevous for a relaxed informal chat in the laboratory setting. (The
outbound experimenter or experimenters must not know the target at
this time. ) Together they agree on a time for the subject description
to start. (E. g., 30 minutes hence -- the length of time required for
getting to the furthest target in the pool. This time is then an
Lavariant for all experiments. ) The outbound experimentar thes leaves
the lab, uses a random number generating procedure to obcais a cumber
from 1 - ... (number of targets in pool), obtains the sc-cumbered
envelope from the target pool (preferably kept by another person) and
leaves the premises. (We use a Texas Instruments SR-51 hand calculater
which has a random number function. ) After driving away from the
laboratory, he opens the envelope to determine the target, and proceeds
to that location. I suggest he arrange to park and then come upon che
targer location ac exactly the starting time so bis view of it is
fresh at experiment beginning. He them simply pays attention to the
environment and does not let his mind wander (especially to amother
targac). It appears moc to matter how many people comprise the
outbound caam, provided they don't (1) just pay attention to each
other or (2) scatzar about. At the end of the agreed-upon target
viewing time they recur to the lab (usually 15 minutes).
.
(d) Inbound Experimenter Behavior: During the period chat the outbound
experimenters are enroute to the target, the inbound experimenter and
subject have a period to relax and discuss the protocols. (Isbound
it is best mot to have additional observers. ) The goal of the inbound
experimenter during this period is to make it "safe" for the subject
to experience remote viewing. This typically includes a low-key pep
talk as to how remote viewing appears to be a natural, not abnormal,
function, that many people appear to have done it successfully, evez
their first time, and always the reminder to eschew analysis and
simply zander raw impressions.
.
Since we think that remote viewing is a difficult task, like perceiving
a subliminal stimulus, we think is takes the full aczestive powers of
the subject. Therefore, the environment, procedures, etc., should be as
C
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possible so that as little attention as
possible is on anything other than the job at hand. No zumbo- jumbo,
hypnosis, strobe lights, or sensory-deprivation procedures, since all
these (novel) environmental factors take away some of the subject's
much-needed attention. We are in this sense proponents of a "naturalist
school." If the subject feels more comfortable smoking or drinking a
cup of coffee, why not? These should be arranged ahead of time, however,
so that neither subject mor experimentar leave the experimental room
while waiting for the outbound experimentar to reach his target.
The experimenter should have arranged ahead of time to have pen and
paper available for drawing, and a tape recorder. When the agreed-
upon experimental time arrives, the Labound experimentar simply asks
the subject to "describe what impressions come to mind with regard to
where the outbound experimenter is." Most subjects prefer to close
their eyes, but they should simply do what comes naturally. The roce
lighting is preferably subdued to prevent after-image highlights,
shadows on eyelids, etc. It is best that the inbound experimenter soc
push the subject to say a lot, but act as if they have all the time is
the world; otherwise, a subject may tend to embroider descriptions
just to be saying something to please the experimenter. If the subject
tends towards being analytical ("I see Macy's on El Camino Real"),
the experimentar sust gently lead the subject into description, mot
analysis. ("You don't have to tell me where is is, just describe
what you see. ") This is the most important and difficult task of
the inbound experimentes.
It is also useful for the inbound experimentar to "surprise" the subject
with new viewpoints. ("Go above the scene and look down -- what do you
see? If you look to the left, what do you see?) For some reason, the
subject's viewpoint appears to shift rapidly wish a question like this,
and the data sneaks through before the subject's defenses activate to
block it out. The shifting of viewpoint also obviates the problem of
the subject spending the entire time giving meticulous detail on a
single blade of grass or piece of concrete, which, even if true, will
be of no help to a judge. Once a subject feels he sees something, he
tends to band on to this perception rather than commit himself to a
new viewpoint.
The subject must be encouraged to sketch what he sees, even over his
objections that he is not an artist, can't sketch, etc. de may do so
throughout, or wait until the last five minutes if intermittent drawing
would distract his concentration. Since drawings tand to be more
accurate tham verbalications, this is an extremely important factor
for good results.
:) Post-Experiment Feedback: When the outbound experimenter recuras,
: inbound and outbound experimenters and subject should proceed
ectly to the target for feedback. This helps to develop the subject's
€
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subjective sense of what in his mental imaging is correct versus
incorrect, and compleses that experiment for his so that when he does
a following experiment, his mind is not still on wondering how he did
on the previous one. Caly a very experienced subject can function
well time after time without feedback, so this must be done to insure
success.
(f) Judging Procedure: In a sanse, all che accion in the remoce
viewing procedure is in the judging. Amy single experiment in remote
viewing, even if perfect, cam in principle be dismissed as possibly
coincidence. Further, amy resuls less than perfect can be disaissad
.
as a generalized "grass is green, sky is blue" Canscript which fics
every target. Caly blind differential discrimination across a series
of targets can put both of these alternatives to rest.
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The judging procedures are as follows. Most, an experimentar moc
involved in judging must read the transcripts and delete from the
any reference to dates or previous targets, so that a judge could not
order the transcripts chronologically, or determine that a gives
transcript can't be the boathouse because the subject mentions in che
transcript that what he is looking at reminds hi= of the boathouse
which was the previous day's target. With these deletions, the
transcripts with theis associated drawings are labeled in random order
and given to the judge in one hand, so to speak, while a list of the
target cards, also in a (different) numbered random order is given to
the judge in the other hand. His job, then, it to go to a target
location (physically), read through all the transcripts, and order
them best to worst match (1 through 6, say, if there are six targecs
and six transcripes). He then proceeds to a second target site and
reorders the same set of transcripts again, best through worst match,
and so forth. The judge is to do this exercise i= a replacement
sense; that is, even though he may have assigned a given transcript
as best match to a given target, he may find at another tages that is
is the best match to that one also. Even though he knows logically
that is couldn't go to both, we find that judges in fact have no
hesitation in using a transcript trice in first place, simply because
they aren't suse as to which one it does in fact belong, and they
want to imsure the best possibility of not missing a potential match.
Based on this we feel it is more appropriate to use statistics based
on replacement. Some argue with this, and if one thinks it is sora
correct then one can use statistics of matching without replacement.
A summary of both approaches with the appropriate tables is attached
in the form of the attached memo.
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.Page 6
February 17, 1978
€
I believe the above summary covers everything. If you or your
colleagues involved in setting up and carrying out an experiment have
any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me for
further information. My telephone number is (415) 326-6200, Ext. 3202.
Good luck!
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With best regards,
E. E. Puthoff, Ph. D.
Senior Research Engineer
Radio Physics Laboratory
HE ?: d1=
Enc.
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APPENDIX C
(UNCLASSIFIED)
EDITED TRANSCRIPTS AND TARGETS PACKAGE
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Et
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Judging Matrix
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Target
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Transcript
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best match =1
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Equitable Trust Bank Building ON APG
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APG Main officers Club Bedg
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Jackie's Bar Harbor Dex
Rt 40 Year Long Bar Harbor
BAR HIF
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Pizza Hut
Corner R+ 40 + R+ 155
Havre de grace
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Mammoth Mart Sept. Store
Campus Hills Shopping Center
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Sav-a-Lot Drugs
Edgewater Shopping Plaza
Edgewood
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White Coffee Pot Jv.
Edgewood on Rt 40
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A
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TEAM 1
I81 :
It is about 1:21
This is a
experiment of Project Grill Flame. ST is the subject, IBl is
the inbound experimenter, 083 and 082 are the outbound experimenters.
082 and 063 should be at the target in about another seven minutes.
We'll begin then. It is now 1:30,
082 and 083
should be at the target. All right ST why don't you just relax,
lean back, take your time and see what you can see ..
ST:
I had a feeling before we started that 082 and 083 were on a street,
a sidewalk somewhere prior to the sight and 082 was fooling with
the camera. I don't know how accurate that is but it was just kind
of a strong impression that they walked, that they parked the car
and walked some distance but.
[B]: When did you get this impression, right now, before we started?
ST: Both. Before we started, say 28 after or 27 after.
IBT:
Oh, I see.
ST :
I just had the feeling of two of them on the street with the camera
and they were stopped fooling with the camera probably getting to
the sight. I don't know whether that, you know, that was a I was
trying to think of 083 and 0B2 and could of forced it trying to
visualize the two of them.
IBl: There is nothing wrong with that. You saw a sidewalk and them
fooling with the camera. That's not bad.
ST :
But I get the seem to be focused on 082 and don't yet have any
view of what they are looking at.
IBT :
Take your time.
ST :
I have a sorta have the feeling that they are on a street near
some green like next to a Tawn. I can't yet visualize their
surroundings.
IBT: All right. You mean you see something green, when you say lawn
or grass green.
ST:
You know something that would get along a sidewalk near a resi -.
dential area. I get an impression of something like a white
house, like a multi, like one of the older multi-story type houses,
you know. Often they are put into apartments or you know those
big old.
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IB1 :
Yes, I know what you mean. Is there anything distinct. You say it
is one of those older ones, probably well I better not tell you
what it is but when you say one of those older ones you say it is a
house and it is white.
..
S7 :
Yes.
IB1 :
And it is multi-story.
S1:
Yes.
IBT :
Any columns or anything like that. When you say old for some
reason I get this.
ST: Well, maybe not columns but porches or something like that.
IBT :
I get you. And you saw grass in front.
ST:
Yes but not what I get the impression of maybe I get the impression
of one close to a street and not very much lawn. You know.
IB1 :
Uh huh.
ST :
Just some green around the street.
IB1:
Any trees?
ST :
I don't visualize any trees like in the front yard or any.
IBT :
You seem to be seeking it from the front, is there any chance
that you can see it from any other direction? How about behind
the house? In the back, anything there?
ST :
I get the impression of clutter behind the house. Maybe, sounds
strange, but objects behind the house, I don't want to be specific,
but like garbage cans or gas bottles behind.
IBT :
Clutter was a good word. What about if you look around the house,
is there anything in the vicinity, on both sides. Like for instance
if you go away a little bit further away and right now you are
focused in pretty close. If you go a little bit further away you
can see more of the surroundings. Is there anything there?
$1:
I get a feeling that it seems like it is in Havre-de-Grace, you
know. I had a feeling before this started that this wasn't too
far from the bridge.
.
.
IB1:
Uh huh.
ST :
Earlier I was trying to concentrate on the two and I got the feel-
ing that they had gone something like in that direction and maybe
had seen the railroad tracks of something on the way.
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IBT: Uh huh.
ST: I don't, I can't really pull back and.
IB1 :
Well, look to the sides. Is there anything to the left side or
the right side of this building. The back you saw that there
was clutter.
ST: I get the feeling that it is on a corner. That the building
occupies a corner of a street.
IB1:
OK.
ST :
And maybe about three stories high.
IBT: Uh huh.
ST:
I get the feeling it is maybe not too far from the hospital area
there but I don't know. I hate to be too specific.
IB1 :
If you get the feeling, that is fine. No problem.
S1:
And I get the I felt like they were around that area and happen
to there's an old building across the street from that but that
may be too specific.
IB1 :
No.
S7:
Maybe in that area there.
IB1 :
You mean on the other side of the street that you were looking
there is an old building.
ST:
Yes. And this is the building I was talking about. It is a white
building and those things are built very near the street in some
of those old sections there.
IBI: Uh huh. All right.
ST :
If I were to attempt to draw it from another view I would something
with either a very shallow peaked roof or flat roof, you know,
something that you don't have a sense of the roof from the street
but the side of the building very flat with windows.
IBT: You said before the building was white.
ST: Yes, white or off white.
IBT: White or off white.
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S1: But something like on the front, I'm not sure whether it would be
a porch of just a covered way in front, you know.
IB1: Uh huh. You mean an entrance that is covered.
S1: . Yes, some sort of entrance. It could, I get the feeling it's
either a porch or covered entrance way.
IB1:
OK, you have done so well today that I don't have to interrupt
too much.
ST:
Yes. I don't know how accurate the idea of I got a feeling of that
area before we started so I hope it is not too much oriented to at-
tempting to see what I want to see.
IB1:
If you felt this way that's all it is I mean you don't analyze it,
you really have the feeling that's all.
ST: I saw some sort of covered thing and then close to the street.
IB1 :
All right.
ST:
And it could be either a white or off white brick or.
IB1:
But it is a light color.
ST :
Or it could be siding or stucco.
IB1:
And you did see some green in front whatever it was, and clutter
in the back.
ST :
Yes, something in the back maybe even a fence of something, you
know, a partial screening thing or maybe clutter, cans or some-
thing like that.
IB1:
And the surroundings you saw across the street another building
but.
ST:
It was almost like it was next to Harford Memorial Hospital with
the parking garage and everything but that may bee specific. I
got the feeling that 083 and 082 had to park somewhere and walk
around to it, maybe a block or two.
IBT: That's good. You are really coming through today.
S1:
I'm either totally 180 out or I did fairly good.
IB1:
So far you have been doing pretty well. You didn't need any
encouragement. You got the feeling from before we started,
right.
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ST:
Yes. I was trying to visualize 082 and 083 in the car, you know,
trying to see if I could focus in on one or the other and I had
the feeling that they went off of APG by way of the hospital, you
know that route out there.
IBT:
Yes. Believe it or not the time is almost up. They should be
getting ready to leave.
ST :
Yes.
IBI :
It sounds very interesting.
S1
I got the feeling that they came around this way maybe to on the
sidewalk to this place and somewhere in this region was where they
were fooling with the camera.
IBT: Good.
.
.
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FOOLING WITH
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SIDE VIEW
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B
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TEAM 1
IBT :
It is now 1:25 PM,Was
This is a
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experiment of Project Grill Flame. ST is the subject, 181 the
inbound experimenter, 082 and 083 the outbound experimenters.
In
about five minutes 082 and 083 will be at the target and then we'll
start. We had a little problem here, it is now 1:32, we had a
problem starting this recorder. Anyway, we are ready to go now.
ST are you ready?
ST: Yes.
IB1 :
Go right ahead.
ST:
I had an impression some just before a couple minutes before we
started that 082 and 083 parked and 082 was checking her watch
before they approached the site. I'm gonna try to sat on that.
IB1 :
That's very interesting, you're really zeroing in on people there.
ST :
Something like was it they were out parking lot or something and
moved toward the side, I'm not getting any impression.
IBT :
You say it's a parking lot?
$1 :
Yes, I got the impression of something white, I don't, I can't
distinguish anything.
IB1:
Alright, keep looking, we are still here.
ST :
I got the impression of something white like surface like one
sees on trailers, you know house trailers or something like that,
but
IB1: You say it is something white, is it horizontal plane in the ground
or some kind of a vertical plane like a wall?
ST: . It is in the vertical plane.
IBI: Vertical plane. Well see if that plane has got some kind of a
distinguishing feature, anything, any shape, any height or width.
ST:
I get the impression somewhat low horizontal, longer than tall.
I get the impression that one end of this is kinda of an aperture,
I wouldn't say its a window or a door.
IB1 :
You mean it's some kind of an opening?
S7 :
Some sort of opening and
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IB1: Is there anything else around there that you see, above it or in
· front of it? Suppose, move back a little bit from what you're
seeing.
S1:
I get somewhat of an impression of something or maybe something
darker near this opening or whatever. I'm not sure whether that's
a continuing part of the structure or, or another structure.
IB1: How about, does this thing, you know you say, you say at one end
of it, it seems like this thing has got some kind of an end. What
about above it, you just say it's low and long. Is there anything
above whatever that thing is?
ST: Well, I don't get anything.
IB1:
No.
ST :
I don't get anything above. Let me just concentrate, it is as if
that white part diminished somewhat but I'm having difficulty
getting, getting an image of this.
IB1 :
Well let's concentrate on 082 and 083. You seemed to have
focused on 082 before. Maybe she moved around now so maybe that's
why your view is changing. She could have gone around to the
back of this whatever it is and take a look from that direction.
Maybe 082 went to the side, I don't know. You might be seeing
something different as a matter of fact.
S1: Yes.
-
IB1: That shouldn't diminish anything you saw before.
S1:
I don't have a very, I had a feeling that, that a part of this
you could not exactly that the structure is raised or whatever
it is is raised off the ground, but that perhaps I get some sort
of impression that it is like something that has a either it could
be off the ground or it has some skirting around it or something
that could cover the fact that this thing is raised up.
IB1: I see.
ST:
I had a
impression earlier of some steps or something like
a wooden platform. I don't know whether that was, what that
was.
IBT :
That's alright. Well you know so far you have seen white. Do
you see any other colors around there, any contrasts? Try to
move away from the thing, maybe view it from another direction,
front, rear, back, side or from above.
ST:
I have difficulty. Let me try to, I have difficulty from above.
I seem to stay somewhat on the ground plane.
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IBT: OK, maybe you are viewing it from the same height as 082 and 083.
ST: I tend to think that the white part is diminishing somewhat. I
tend to think of a metallic structure, something
IB1:
Shiny.
ST:
No, the impression is somewhat that it is, the walls are of a
metallic structure like those fabricated industrial.
IBT: Uh huh.
S1:
Buildings of that nature you know where its a - I have a I don't
get a feeling of like a store of something, I get more of that
sort of nature, like it is an industrial structure.
IB1 :
Yes. Is it solid, I mean is you know a lot of times, do you see
solid or do you see any lines in that wall? Whatever that thing
is.
S1: Uh huh.
IB1:
Is it a smooth surface?
ST :
No.
IB1:
Not smooth.
$1:
Well there maybe some vertical lines in it, not like a board, but
I81:
There are lines.
ST:
Yes, which may be just you know creases in this metallic thing.
I do get the impression that it's possibly, possibly a metal
building, in fact the white aspect has diminished somewhat.
IBT:
Uh huh.
ST: There may be surrounding it.
IB1: A little interruption here.
ST:
I got an impression of, an impression of a chain link fence.
IB1 :
Chain link.
ST: Not too far from the structure, maybe even connected to it but
not far away at least is within view of a chain link fence.
I
would, fairly high, something that has maybe even has a gate to
it.
81
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IB1 :
What about when you looked at the metallic part did you see any
like a roof or any, in the vertical plane did you see anything
above, is there a border, .: an edge?
ST: Yes.
IBI :
It does.
S1:
But I'm not sure whether it's flat or slightly rising.
IB1:
How high does this look?
ST: I don't get the impression that it's say like a two story. It
could be a high one story you know. Some industrial buildings
have
IBT:
The reason I'm asking is the first impression you got was something
long and it was longer than taller. Now this metallic part does
it give you the same impression or is it changed now.
ST :
It could be a different view, it could have been, I had the
initial impression that it was, that it was lower than I have
the impression now.
IBI :
Uh huh.
ST:
I have the impression now that it is probably one story but fairly
high like you might you know larger buildings one might put equip-
ment in or you might do manufacturing in.
IB1: We are about out of time ST. I assume that they are leaving.
Maybe you focus in before on 082 what she did. Do you have
anything now that you can, just out of curiosity.
ST: Well I got the impression in the chain link area there were
articles, materials, or pieces of things, maybe equipment, I
don't know, but I didn't get the impression of it being all that
orderly.
IBI :
Uh huh.
ST: Impression of objects being within the view that I had.
IB1 :
OK. They are probably leaving now the area. You want to make
a drawing of this. Hey 082 while S1 is drawing there is something
wrong with this record button. Twice I couldn't depress it. When
I wanted to depress the record and play, the record didn't want to
go down. You might want to check this.
.
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TEAM 1
IB4:
It's now 1:00
This is an experiment of
Project Grill Flame with SI as the subject, IB4 as the inbound
experimenter and 081 as the outbound experimenter. 081 is on his
way and he should be at the site in about 30 minutes. The time is
now 1:30, it's all your's $1. Do you feel better now that you have
relaxed a little bit?
S1 :
Yes, I get, I sensed earlier that, I don't know how this will go,
but I sensed earlier on that 081 may have parked his car not too
close to the site and walked to, walked to the site. Somewhere
in there I had an impression that he was next to a tall structure.
That's a relative term. Structure like vertically boarded.
IB4:
Uh huh, is this now or is this before?
ST :
Sorta now too, but I kinda got that feeling a little bit before
too.
IB4:
Like when he was approaching the site.
ST :
Yes. That he may have been standing by or maybe is standing by
a structure, a board, a wood structure of some sort made out of
boards.
IB4:
Does it have a color, can you see any kind of colors?
ST:
Oh, I sensed it might, my impression it might be a soft brown or
grayish brown type of thing.
IB4:
Any other features to this structure?
ST: Possibly fairly large and maybe like a shed of some sort. You
know it could be.
IB4:
That kind of size type structure.
ST: . Yes, maybe not a I say a shed but maybe a rather, maybe a large,
large building of that.
IB4: OK.
ST:
Let me try to think for a second, Let me try.
IB4:
Sure, take your time.
S1:
I have difficulty getting out of my head, I had an earlier image
and it I don't want to.
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IB4:
Were you precognizing?
ST :
That's what I'm afraid of and I'm afraid that might be.
IB4:
Well why don't, OK. Why don't you relax a few minutes and
ST:
I was precognizing, might as well lay it, I was precognizing
perhaps I got the impression of boats.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
Like a
IB4:
Do you get that same impression now?
ST :
Yes, I guess I do, I get, I had earlier an impression of being
near boats and
I84:
So therefore there's water somewhere.
ST :
Yes, I guess. You might draw this conclusion. But I had at an
earlier, you know just before, just before we started, I had an
impression of boats.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
I don't know whether 081 drove around an area coming up to the
site that had boats or that it was a precognition sort of thing
of boats.
IB4:
OK, well why don't you relax or do what you want to do and see
if that same imagery comes to you now.
ST:
I guess the structural impression I had that perhaps 081 is in
walking around whatever this structure might be as opposed to like
level grass type thing that there's some perhaps intermittent
grass and but a 'rough surface like it might be partially gravel
or partially dirt or something like that.
IB4: OK.
ST:
I get the impression that this structure at least on one side
faces is a on one side it looks toward a relatively open area.
IB4: Open as like a field open or as like water open or
'.
.
S1:
No, something like it might, as you might have an area toward
before you get to the water or something like that.
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IB4: OK. Are you looking at the front of the building?
S1: I think I'm looking at, probably looking at the side. I don't
get the impression of any windows.
IB4: OK. Can you shift 90 degrees or 180 degree, well preferably 90
degrees around the building. We seem to have this great affinity
for rear end buildings and side buildings and
S1: I get the impression of some wooden steps, maybe a little beat up.
IB4:
OK. Is this part of the building also what you saw vertical
boards.
S1:
Yes.
IB4:
OK, you mentioned that when you were looking the view that you
saw was you know over some open field, let's say before it got
to some water surface or something. Can you see anything in that
particular area I mean is there anything off to the left or right
of it?
ST:
I'd say off to the right there's a large tree. This is definitely
not a manicured area. My impressions are it's kinds of a rough.
IB4:
OK.
ST :
type area.
IB4:
Any other features?
ST:
There may be some sort of platform around on one side of the
building.
IB4:
A platform on one side of the building. OK.
ST: Of some description.
184: Would you like to put what you've seen so far on paper, so we
can , or do you want to wait a while.
ST:
Let's wait just, let's wait a little bit on that.
IB4:
OK. What's
ST :
There may be an iron rail or something or some posts or iron
posts on the platform.
IB4: Any specific taxture to the platform?
S1: Could be cement.
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IB4: OK.
S1: Could have a ramp or something. I'm not real sure that, part of
it might be wood, I don't know.
-
IB4:
OK.
ST :
But looking from on the ramp side there's a some open space and
then I think there's another building. I don't know, I can't
sense too much about that, whether
IB4: But there's some other structure.
ST: There's some other structure, yes.
IB4:
OK. Can you, you know before we were looking over the flat area
leading to an open area. Can you sorta look the other way,
possibly like go to the other side of the building and look out?
ST :
I kinda get the feeling you have to kinda like this structure
doesn't, you don't just drive off the street right on to you
know right on to the structure, that maybe you, the street is a
little bit aways.
IB4: OK. There's a street nearby?
S1 :
Yes. But it's not like, this structure is not right on the
street.
IB4: OK. Is this also sort of a rough area or is there
ST :
Yes.
IB4:
The whole thing.
ST :
Yes, pretty much like it's maybe potholes or something like that.
IB4: OK.
ST :
I get the feeling the structure is at least two stories.
IB4: OK. Do you have any feel for 081?
ST:
No. I had a feeling earlier on 081, I think when he got out of
his car I think he almost forgot the camera.
I84:
I think you have an affinity for the camera.
-
.
ST: Yes, something like that.
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IB4:
OK. Before you mentioned that you weren't too sure of the image
of boats was something you precognized or was coming in at this
time. Do you have any, you know now that we've gone away from
that for a while.
- --
S1:
I have less of an impression now that we have gone.
IB4:
Less of an impression, OK.
S1:
Less of an impression now that we've gone away from it.
IB4:
It's possible 081 might have passed something along that line.
.
ST :
Might have, or it might have just been, you know my thoughts before
hand.
IB4:
OK. Any other things that you see, any colors of any kind?
S7 :
I get the impression of a maybe a white sign with the paint
flaking off or something like old, you know.
IB4:
Sounds like this entire area is having a problem.
51:
Sounds a little, you know black painted lettering or something
like that.
IB4:
OK. Do you have any idea of what it inside the building of this
main structure that you have described. Any feel at all?
ST :
It could be some sorta of storage or something there but it also
gives the impression that it might be some sort of commercial
operation, but I kinda get the impression of things stored, you
know.
IB4:
OK. Can you take like a broad view of the area. I don't know
if we've tried to do that before where like sorta stand back and
get this big picture type thing and if you can, can you see any
other features that we haven't discussed yet or
S1: I get the impression of some small windows.
IB4;
On this initial - on this first structure?
S1:
On this structure, I get the impression of some small windows.
IB4:
OK, would they be like high on this structure or down towards
the lower end of the structure?
.
ST:
I guess a couple down below and maybe a small window, small
window up higher.
..
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IB4: OK.
ST:
I get the feeling of a truck.
-
IB4: A truck?
S1:
Yes.
:
IB4:
OK, where at?
ST:
Not too far from, not too far from the building.
IB4:
Sorta like maybe parked off in a distance, you know.
ST :
I don't know, maybe it arrived or is parked or perhaps a large
truck, either one of those platform jobbies or one of those stake
sided things.
IB4:
Do you see any other people at all?
S1:
No.
IB4:
OK, do you have any fael for what 081's doing now, or where he
is?
S1:
I have a feeling he might be either close to the building or
going to go in the building.
IB4:
Oh, he might go in the building.
ST: Uh huh.
IB4:
Huh, do you see, I know you said you saw one tree sorta, any
other greenery type images?
S1:
Well there maybe some weeds not too far away from this place.
IB4:
Alright, OK.
S1:
I get the impression at some distance things get a little neater,
that there maybe, I don't know how far, but some distance away
there maybe neater residential, you know, the impression is not
all that far from some residential area.
IB4:
OK, ST, well 0B1 should be headed towards his car. Any last
minute, any things that you would like to add, any last minute
things that you see or
ST: No, I'll try to draw it.
IB4:
OK.
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TEAM 1
---
I83:
Time is now 1:55
This is an experiment
of Project GRILL FLAME. ST is the subject, IB3 as the inbound
experimenter and 084 as the outbound experimenter .: 084 should be
there in about five minutes and we'll start the experiment then.
S1: OK, that's the record.
IB3:
OK, its now 2:00. OK, want to describe. By the way don't hold back
on anything. Change your mind if you want to.
ST: OK, I'm trying to take a second and try to see if I can find 084. I
am not getting very much in the way of any images.
IB3:
Feelings, or vertically.
ST :
I have a feeling of 084 near his vehicle right now. Maybe I can go
with that but he's, he must be in a place that he's not far from
his vehicle. I am not sure that outside knowledge, I happen to
have that he has, I know that he has a pickup, but I have a sense
that he is near his vehicle.
IB3:
Anything else close?
S1 :
Not yet, I don't, I - let me just try - I have a feeling that it
is rather open as opposed to a rather open area. I do get a sense
of perhaps a greenery, meaning that it is an open type situation.
183: How close is the closest object of greenery to the vehicle?
ST :
I don't know, I think maybe I just need to relax a bit more. I'm
not getting much of anything.
IB3: Try either looking at an overview or finding a sense of detail.
ST:
I get, if I get anything, I get a sense of water nearby. I don't.
IB3:
Is there any sense of color with that?
ST:
The green, like I say, my first image was 084 next to his vehicle
and the facing, perhaps facing an area of greenery. Later, you
know, I was talking about an image of water, perhaps he's beside
a lake or something or a small pond.
IB3: OK, think a minute and just gather impressions.
ST :
I'm trying. I don't want to get images of specific places
encroaching.
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.: .
IB3: That ought to be all right.
ST :
In the far field I would get, I get the impression of structures,
perhaps apartments, or something like that, denser, a denser type
Structures. I get the sense of that as in terms of color, in terms
of dark browns.
IB3: OK, Does this make up the whole horizon.
.
ST: No.
183:
Or just a portion?
S1:
That would be just a portion of the area there.
IB3:
You mentioned water, is that in the same direction with the sense
of water?
ST :
Yes, as if 084 were, if he were to face in one direction he would
look over that part that might be water and the far horizon would
be structures of that type.
IB3:
Do you hear anything, any sense of sound?
ST :
No.
IB3:
OK, look down at your feet again, do you see any impression of
color?
ST :
I would say that where he might be or around the immediate area
would not be as opposed to a parking, a hard surface thing, that
he would be maybe in an area of gravely or dirt or something like
that. Not too far, I get the impression that he'd be not too far
from a main road, but.
IB3:
Try the business of, Oh, which direction is the sun?
ST :
Well maybe I am on the wrong, well I guess the sun would be away
from. Say if you have in the far horizon and some greenery and
somewhere between here and here would be, say like that, somewhere
between here and here, 084 would be located. That would be the
water in the far field would be -
IB3: Where's the sun?
ST: Brown structures. Square.
.
IB3:
Are you looking into the sun this way?
ST :
No.
IB3:
OK, Away from the sun?
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$1 :
And the sun would be over here and then 084 would be located some-
where around here.
IB3:
Did you say like gravel underneath or.
S1:
Yes, I would say. I would say the area here would be gravel, dirt,
not a paved surface, and that he would be from a roadway over here.
IB3:
In this picture, you got the impression that he's looking.
ST :
I would'nt know what the object would be, whether the object,
whether there would be, I would sense that 084 might be near a
recreational facility that could be something, maybe even a picnic
table, or I hate to be specific.
IB3: OK, you say picnic tables. Did you get an impression of some
geometry associated with that or just the idea?
ST: Ah -
IB3:
Was that a visual idea or verbal idea?
ST:
Well, somewhere in the further field perhaps, there maybe you are
right maybe that's being too specific in that.
IB3:
Don't worry about it.
ST:
That there would be something that could be maybe it could be a
picnic table or maybe it could be equipment, recreational equip-
ment or something like that in the near, not too far field, you
know.
IB3:
Let me keep you straight as far as when you are getting too
specific. Just say what comes into your mind and don't worry.
ST:
OK. It's difficult to, but I had a sense, the most predominant
sense is that 084 himself is in a rather open area.
IB3:
OK.
S1:
The dominant sense is that in the
IB3:
Try to draw what's in that direction. Go ahead with what you are
saying.
-
S1:
In the other sense that any conjested area or more structures is
in further field from him and that somewhere in the intervening
field.
IB3:
Imagine that you are here and now turn around.
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ST: OK.
IB3:
Turn around and look in the other direction and see what you can
see.
ST: I would say that in the other direction there would be probably a
fance somewhere, maybe across the road. Somewhere in the other
direction there would be a fence.
.
IB3:
Draw a fence.
ST: OK. Out of wire and posts and in the far field in this direction
would be a rolling terrain and I don't know whether its perhaps
mixed vegetation could be like - I don't have the sense of it being.
bare or if there - you know its not like something that's just
plowed, it's either, its also in greens.
IB3:
Is this land high or low?
S7 :
Relatively high, as opposed to here at the proving ground, its
relatively higher ground.
IB3:
OK, once again you can go with 0B4.
ST :
Well I had a sense of the fact 084 isn't doing a lot of activity.
IB3:
How's our time? Let's see, why don't you draw something else in
there. I can't really think of anything myself. OK - Overview
Can you get a terrain layout or directions to places from this
location, as if you were looking straight down on the sight? Any
feeling for that?
ST :
No, I can't, I have, I don't.
IB3:
OK. Is there any small object that's of any importance in this
immediate area?
$1: Maybe posts somewhere along here, not too far from where.
183: You want to label the posts.
ST: OK.
IB3:
OK.
ST: I think that's about it.
.
IB3:
Sense of color, one last thing, sense of color, other than you
mentioned green.
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ST: In the near field perhaps browns and in the far field greens, open, .
more of an open expanse, and that's
IB3: I guess that's the show, very good.
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Fishing
LAKE scope OF Fuel At.
ducción structure
POSTS
GRAVFi /
,
FEINER
Gick
è0
98
-TRUCAIN
hollis.
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TEAM 1
IB1:
It is 12:43, %
This is a
experiment pro-
ject GRILL FLAME with ST as the subject, OB1 as the outbound experi-
menter and IB1 as the inbound experimenter. 0B1 left here a few
minutes ago, he should be at the target at about 1:30. He'll be there
for 15 minutes. During that time I, IBI, will be interviewing S1.
It is now 1:30 and OBT should be at the target. OK ST why don't you
just relax, lean back and tell me what you see. Take your time. Let
me make a suggestion - don't try to force it, just relax. Whatever
comes to your mind. Would you like me to give you a hand?
$1: Yes, I think I would.
IBT:
Do you see a shape, Tine or anything? Do you see any color?
S1 :
No, I haven't I am almost I'm really sort of a blank but it is al-
most as if something is about to come.
IBT: OK, just a minute let's wait.
ST :
And I think maybe your idea of attempting to focus me on what I
might see.
IBT:
I would say don't try to think what you are seeing, just do you see
any line, any outline, or any kind of shape or any kind of color?
Whatever it is, even if you say I see a straight line.
ST: I am trying not to predispose myself to something but if I see any-
thing I see some darkened, darkened shapes like silhouettes of it
is almost like silhouettes, silhouettes of equipment.
IB1: Just let yourself go, don't try to figure out what it is. You see
silhouettes, do they have any specific shape, are they square or
round?
ST:
I guess what I see is almost like tank silhouettes or something with
a tube on it.
IBI: Don't worry what it is. You don't have to worry, but it looks some-
thing like a tank.
S1: Yes, something with a long tube on it.
IB1:
OK - How about take a look can you tell me any color, is there any-
thing else around that you can see. Is it just sitting one thing or
is there a lot of things sitting around there?
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ST: I guess the only image I see really is sort of against a neutral
background. That that I do see it is not like I see a fixed scene.
I am not sure that it might be one or two.
IB1:
Why don't you describe what you see if you want to.
ST:
I guess what I see is something like this and I saw different forms
of that. Something like more round like this.
IB1:
Uh huh, OK but it is still tank - whatever it is.
ST :
But I found that if I had an impression of background at all, it was
almost as if there was something like that could be I didn't see
color.
IBI :
OK. But was there something around it?
ST: And it could be like clouds or it could be a tree.
IBI :
OK.
ST: But I felt that around that area there it could be either a tree
background or a cloud background. I saw really I did not see this
detail.
IB1:
I understand.
ST: I saw ---
IBT:
Don't worry about the detail:
ST: A black a very basic silhouette.
IBT :
Don't try to figure out what it was. It doesn't make any difference,
you shouldn't. Let's try some more ST or we can get lost in the de-
tail here. How about if you shift your view to another direction.
Let's say you go to the left from where you are. Or if you don't
see anything from the left go see from above or go to the right.
ST :
I still that's all I see I still when I look on this last thing.
I
saw if anything something like from the front.
IBI: OK. How about if any road maybe or do you see any characteristics
of the terrain where these things are, is there any water? Like in
the background you saw some trees maybe or maybe clouds. Look around
you, are there any houses by any chance or any other shade and as
far as those are concerned are there any roads nearby? Look around
any of the shapes that you see.
S1: I guess that's the hard part is I don't see that level of detail.
I see if any of the shapes are really silhouette type shapes and
defining a background is difficult.
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IBI :
OK - How about if you look from the top, try take a look from the
top, if possible.
7
ST :
OK.
IB1:
It appears you are looking from the side.
ST :
Yes.
IB1 :
But if you take a look from the top like 50 feet by 100 feet above,
what do you see on the bottom?
$1:
I don't see anything. See I try to think of how of what of 081 more.
IB1 :
Yes, why don't you think of 081, or even another thing if you saw
those shapes that were like tanks can you get a little closer?
Can you tell anything more about those shapes or if 081 is there
can you tell me anything about OBT? Do you want to take a break first
or look at the shapes maybe you can get inside?
$1: I am not really getting any Images.
IBT :
You are not getting any additional images? Can you see colors if
you look in that background where you saw those rounded type things?
Are they light or dark?
$1: No, they're dark.
IB1:
OK.
S1: The background was Tighter, much much lighter than those things.
IB1: All right, at any rate it is about a quarter of and I assume that
OB1 is gonna leave there. Whatever details you can remember you
can add now.
ST:
I got the impression that this could either be clouds or smoke or
it might even be trees. That was my feeling and at times it seemed
like it was concealing a portion of the silhouette.
IBT: All right it looks good enough to me. We will stop this now and
see how it came out.
1e1
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TEAM 15
IB4:
It's about 1:25
This is an experiment
of Project Grill Flame with ST as the subject. 184 as the in-
bound experimenter and 081 as the outbound experimenter. 081
should be at the site in about 4 minutes and we'll start then.
It's now 1:30 S1. Just relax and take it easy. When you think
you have something or can if you find 081 anywhere just let me
know.
S1 :
I get the impression OBT is walking around somewhere. I don't .
have any distinct feelings of where it might be yet.
IB4:
Do you see any sort of structures or greenery of any kind.
ST :
No, I don't, maybe just relaxing I don't have any.
IB4:
I tell you what, why don't you just relax awhile, take your time.
S1:
I get the feeling of that a I don't have much perspective on an
area, I get the feeling of some sense of white object. I not
sure what that
IB4:
Do you any size feelings about this object?
S1:
Fairly, fairly large but I have the sense that OBl is pretty
close to it. Perhaps, I also have the feeling of tiles which
is kinda strange but
IB4:
In what relation to this white object?
ST:
Perhaps associated with the white object, perhaps some sort of
tile along the edge of the roof line or something or other, or
I'm not sure whether it is tiles or it could be brick or something.
You know as if it were a white structure with a brick edging.
IB4:
OK so this tiles or brick you are seeing is a darker.
ST:
Yes. It's darker in relationship and appears to be around the
upper edge of this particular object.
IB4:
Do you have a height feeling about the object?
S1 :
I don't feel like it is over a story high.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
I have also a feeling of a of a single well of an entrance
around to one side or I have a feeling of 081 being along sorta
of like almost a white wall there.
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IB4:
Uh huh.
S7 :
But then around to the left side of it I have a feeling that
there's, I get the feeling of some sort of an entrance.
IB4:
OK. Do you see anything around the building, like in front of the
building? I assume you are ground level with 081 at this point.
S1:
Yes, I am ground level with OBl at this point. It's almost like
there was a parking lot on the side of it but maybe a smaller,
smaller area around the front of it. And the front of it I'm not
sure what.
IB4:
The same sort of surface as the parking area you mean.
ST:
I'm not sure.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
i'm not sure. But the front is probably a different, I don't
get the same feeling of the structure around the front of it.
think the front of it is probably darker, a darker shade.
I
IB4:
Do you see any texture, any difference in texture?
$1
Yes, it seems like a rougher taxture on the front but maybe it's
just a matter of color sometimes.
IB4:
OK.
Is the front, you say the front is darker than the rest of
.
it, how does the front compare with your tiles or brick?
ST :
It could be it could maybe be a brick front on the structure.
I
have a feeling that this area overlooks perhaps another area.
I
don't have much of a sense of there being a lot real close on to
this particular, this particular structure.
IB4:
So, in other words, you see this structure as being in sort of an
open.
S1:
In, perhaps in the higher, perhaps somewhat higher than it's
surroundings.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
I'm not sure about that.
.
IB4:
Can you see.
S1:
There's something, I get the sense that there's something tall
maybe as a tower or some sort of structure nearby the building.
I'm not sure what that is.
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IB4:
What direction is that in relation to the building? Can you pin-
point that, right, left, back?
S1: Well may right and behind of the structure.
1.7
IB4:
OK. Do you think you might be able to try and maybe get a little
closer to the structure see if there's anything that identifies
the structure, any identifying features to it.
ST :
I get a feeling that there's a limited amount, perhaps even no
windows on the side but that there could be a couple of large
windows in the front and I sense that a recessed, a recessed type
doorway. There's either something very close to one of the windows
in front or it's perhaps even lettering on a window. I'm not sure.
I don't see that all that clearly.
IB4:
Do you have any color sense?
ST :
Either a yellow or a beige around the window area. Maybe faded
yellow.
IB4:
You're really hanging on in there ST. Do you have any other
perceptions of this structure at all?
$1:
I have difficulty sensing any sort of a roof. I would have
thought, I would expect to have a little more clearer, clearer
image of a roof but I don't. Possibly, possibly it is flat.
IB4:
What, do you have a feel for the shape of this structure?
ST:
Yes, I think it's a long, I think it's a long retangle.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
Possibly toward the back it's maybe not well kept, it's grown up
a little bit or something.
IB4: OK, so you have some feel of some greenery or something back
there.
ST:
Yes, probably so.
IB4:
Do you have any feel at all as to what might be in the structure?
Do you see anything inside of it?
$1:
I think it might, it might have something to do with electronics
or maybe even some sort of, some sort of merchandise. But a,
possibly a store of some description.
IB4:
OK.
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S1: It's not too far from some houses perhaps.
IB4: So you see other structures in the not too distant.
ST: Well vaguely as if there's perhaps another road or a
ฟราน
IB4: OK you see a roadway.
ST :
Yes, I think there's a roadway that runs not too far from the long
side of the structure.
IB4:
OK
ST:
Possibly there are some houses there.
IB4:
You want to possibly draw your structure and where the road and this
other tall object that you saw, you said it might be a tower of
some sort, something like a tower.
ST: Something like this, and
IB4:
OK.
ST:
And this might be like a recess and a doorway and perhaps windows.
I'm not sure whether there's, the only thing I'm for sure I
shouldn't draw that in because I think on this side of the doorway
there's probably a window.
IB4:
OK.
ST :
And I perceive that there was some parking like along here per-
haps in a shorter area on the front.
IB4:
OK.
ST :
And some tall.
IB4:
So you're saying that the side with the recessed doorway is what
you're perceiving as the front.
ST: Yes.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
And possibly there's a roadway that goes back this way and some
houses.
IB4:
OK, if you're looking at the front of this, can you turn yourself
say 180 degrees and see if you can see anything over there.
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ST: OK. No, I'm not - Perhaps in the far distance, of course I have
trouble with near and far field, but there's perhaps an older, an
older structure and maybe even across the road, I'm not sure.
IB4: OK.
S1:
About that older structure possibly has some trees, some trees
are either around it or nearty. There might also be somewhere
near the not too far from the structure, an area where there are
a bunch of cars.
IB4: Do you have any feeling of motion?
ST: No, I don't, I don't pick up motion very much.
IB4:
OK.
ST :
Perhaps over, perhaps over in this region in relationship would be
some cars.
IB4:
OK. And then this area also you are saying is some sort of parking.
$1 :
It's probably a parking lot, I sensed it may have been around the
side somewhere with his car.
IB4:
OK. Can you view, OK, you're looking 180 degrees and you saw some-
thing out to here, right? Can you sorta turn around from that
point and look back on your original structure and see if you
see anything in the wider field around it. Is that supposed to be
your tower? or some tall, I shouldn't say tower but a tall struc-
ture of a kind.
ST: Yes, tall, I have probably drawn this too tall perhaps, but some-
thing higher than
IB4: OK.
ST: OK.
IB4: We still have a couple of minutes. That's it. OK.
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G
TEAM 1 2249
.. ..
.- +
I84:
It is 1:15
This is an experiment of Project
GRILL FLAME with ST as the subject, 184 as the inbound experimenter
083 as the outbound experimenter. 083 should be at the site in
about 15 minutes. OK, it is now about 1:30 $1, just relax and take
your time and see what you can describe.
S1: OK. I sensed earlier about 22 after that 083 was in a built-up
sort of area and he was either looking for a parking place or he.
was looking to find a place to, either find the location, or find
a place to get near the location.
IB4: Do you have any feeling of him now?
ST:
No, I don't, Let me see, let concentrate a little bit.
IB4:
Sure, take your time.
ST:
The only feeling I have is that he's perhaps outside.
IB4:
What gives you that feeling?
S1 :
I guess outside in the sense that there is, it appears built up
around him as if one were on a street and that there were, say
like, store fronts or
IB4:
You see some sort of structure?
S1:
Well at least I have a sense, I don't see a structure, I have a
sense that
IB4:
You have a sense?
S1:
Beforehand is perhaps a series of connecting structures.
I84:
Can you tell me anything about the shape or the color or - of the
structures ?
S1: No. I get the feeling more like it is something like a downtown
area where it is very built-up, the structures are right together.
I84: Any identifying features that you can see? Do you have a feeling
of, are they, you know, what geometrical shape they are or.
ST: Yes, My sense is that they are, and perhaps it's by the aspect,
that they are retangular in different proportions, like one finds
when stores are one next to another.
IB4: Some large versus small.
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ST: Some large versus small, some high roof versus low roof and things
like that.
IB4: Do you have a height feeling at all.
S1:
I feel that my senses that these might be two-story structures.
I sense that he's on maybe the middle of a block as opposed to
a corner of a block and that maybe the structures which he is
facing have large windows.
I84: Do you have any color feelings, or temperature feelings. You said
before you thought he was out in the open.
S1: Not specifically. I tend to look, I tend to feel that these are
rather neutral colors like these form stones or stuccos or things
that tend to be relatively neutral.
I84: OK. What perspective are you dealing from, are you ground level
with him?
ST :
Ground level.
IB4:
Ground level. Do you think you could possibly shift either 90
degrees right or left or possibly go up and see what you can see
from an upper perspective.
ST:
I have difficulty with upper perspectives.
I84:
Ok, fine. Do you think you could either shift like 90 Or 180
degrees?
ST :
Let me try it, let me try to shift.
IB4:
Whatever you feel comfortable with.
S1:
I have a contrary feeling on, a contrary feeling to the idea of
a built-up like a downtown area, in that I don't sense, I don't
sense traffic which is kind of odd. I don't sense a business
of the exterior, if it is the exterior.
IB4: Do you sense other people? Do you sense 083 moving around
possibly or other people being there, you know, as opposed to
let's say, you said traffic that you'd find downtown, cars
rushing by per se.
.
ST: No, I don't - I sense more as if seeing from his perspective as
opposed to sensing him particularly.
IB4: OK. That's very interesting.
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ST: I sense that perhaps he has moved along this formation of structures
but I don't sense his orientation more than I sense him.
I84: That's very interesting.
ST: Like I say, this contrary, this contrary feeling of a relative
lack of business or quietness is contrary to what my image of
where he might be is.
IB4:
Well, where he is is not necessarily all that important, but you
have a feeling of structures, light colored structures, about two
stories in height and
ST :
With large lower story windows.
IB4:
Do you see anything around?
S1 :
I had a feeling earlier of an overhand.
IB4:
Oh, OK.
ST: At least on one of the structures that could be like a large sign
or, you know maybe that's too much, too specific.
IB4: Do you see sort of like a shade versus brightness.
ST: Yes, I would - whatever is overhang has some yellows in it.
-
IB4:
Oh, very interesting. Any other color feelings?
S1:
Perhaps black and perhaps white.
IB4:
Huh.
ST :
But I do sense that, the impression I had earlier was kinda
strange.
IB4:
Strange in what way?
ST: Well I wasn't sure how much confidence to place in that sort of
thing.
IB4: Just say what you feel.
ST :
That tends to be too specific.
IB4:
No, not really, not necessarily, the colors, the brightness
versus light. They say that there's a certain pattern in colors
that are identifiable before other colors, like the light and the
dark, black and white, dim and bright are normally fairly well
identified, so just sorta say what you feel.
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ST: And I sense that there's probably, I don't know how this, there
might be some outside seating, either some sort of fixed place
where which one can sit down.
IB4:
OK. Do you have a feeling of material at all as to what would
comprise that.
ST: I have a feeling that some part of it is wood and that perhaps
another part but that's not in the original direct view. I think
that's somewhere else, but nearby.
IB4:
Nearby, OK
ST :
Near where 083 can see at least and that maybe there are some
people sitting by - at least one or two.
IB4:
Do you see any vegetation at all around the area or have any feel
for any type per se greenery?
ST:
Now there may be, it is possible that there's some, a tree or two
like you find on a street that's into the sidewalk or perhaps there
are some minor shrubs at the periphery.
IB4: Do you think you'd maybe want to draw that and sort of show where
you see the structures versus like where you saw the seating.
ST: Yes. I sense that somewhere like this and this would be like a
street.
IB4:
OK.
ST: And structures are varying like this on out and somewhere near the
center is a building with a large window in it. Like some of these
are two story with windows.
IB4: Uh huh.
ST: And I sense greatest 083's perspective from looking this way and
that was an observer and I sense that over here somewhere perhaps
are some sort of seats.
IB4:
So that's sort of across the street, or what you're saying is across
the street.
ST: Perhaps across the street.
IB4: So you do have a feeling of a street being very, very close.
ST: Now over here is an, perhaps an open area.
IB4: OK.
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ST :
But I'm not sure.
IB4:
Where did you see the trees or the shrubs that you were describing?
S1: Probably along here was a tree, this is a view looking down.
IB4:
OK, you want to label right.
S1:
And maybe, I don't know, maybe some shrubs around here.
IB4:
OK.
$7 :
And I sense that back this building, this is probably a building
here, and I would say of light materials that are rather blocky,
heavy structure. OK.
IB4:
Do you have any contrast in color between this new building or
this new structure versus the original structures?
S1:
Any contrast in color - these would be darker.
IB4:
The original ones are darker.
S1 :
These original ones would be darker.
IB4:
OK. Do you see any small object.
ST:
And older.
1
IB4:
01 der.
$7 :
These are older structures, this is a more modern structure.
IB4:
Very interesting. What gives you that feel?
ST:
Well I think this is perhaps, I just feel a squareishness here as
opposed to the more odd shaped version, that's why I would say
older. This would be a more modern building and these would be
older buildings, they tend to be more cluttered together, jumbled
together type and each with more or less their own character,
perhaps modified but
IB4:
Do you see any like any small objects?
S1 :
I would say a sign but something like an overhang, a sign or
something like that over here.
IB4:
And that's where you had your color feelings coming from initially.
$1:
Yes.
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IB4: Very interesting. Do you see any other details of the surrounding
periphery of this area?
ST :
No, that's about - if there's - perhaps there should be some, one
of the structures may have some old steps, perhaps wooden steps or
something.
IB4:
Wooden steps. Is that on the original set of structures you were
talking about?
$1: On the original set of structures.
IB4:
Do you see any, you know, you say you don't see anything more in
the periphery necessarily, but do you see any more details of the
structures? Can you sort of zero in on the structures?
ST :
Well I tended to think initially that they were, that the structures
were rather neutral, but perhaps that was, some of them might be
brick and maybe darker in colors, but I guess maybe my neutral
thing was more texture as opposed to color.
IB4:
No feeling of supreme roughness or anything like that.
S1:
No, it's relatively neutral in that aspect, but some of them may
be. .
IB4:
Uh huh.
S1:
And it might be the old, you know, red brick or some of them
might have some wood or form stone but rather neutral.
IB4:
Do you have any feel at all, I know this sort of a little different,
do you have any feeling at all for what might be inside the
structures?
S1:
Yes, I kinda feel like they're stores or commercial type structures.
Perhaps one of them.
IB4:
Do you see people or objects that give you the impression of a
store or commercial enterprise?
ST:
The big window thing, I get the impression that there are per-
haps commercial goods in that structure. I sensed earlier that
maybe there may be a bank not too far away, something like that.
IB4:
Very interesting. How do you sense a bank?
ST :
No, no that's just maybe its related to the commercial thing, but
I have a feeling a bank is around the corner at least.
.
.
· IB4:
You have a feeling of a bank. So it's not necessarily one of those
structures being.
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ST: No, not necessarily one of those structures here.
IB4:
Can you show on the drawing approximately where you think the bank
is?
ST:
I think there's a bank around here, maybe around this part of it.
IB4:
OK.
ST :
Kinda like around the corner.
I84:
Do you have any feeling of motion?
ST
No that's rather odd, that's why I think.
IB4:
Or people of any kind.
ST :
No, I don't have, I don't have any sense of other people.
IB4:
Do you still have a sense.
ST :
I said there might be a couple of people sitting.
IB4:
Uh huh, but that would be sort of a stationary feeling.
$1 :
That's a passive, that's a passive thing see.
IB4:
Right.
ST:
And I don't see, you know, I don't see a lot of people activity
for some reason or other. I'm just kind of
.
IB4:
Sort of interesting.
ST :
I don't see vehicular activity which is kind of off.
IB4:
But you sense a road.
$1:
I sense, yes, I sense some sort of road, well, not so much -a road
specifically as I sensed earlier 083 was observing toward these
structures. OK, and that logically one might think a road is,
he's perhaps observing from a road.
IB4:
Do you have a feeling of concrete, asphalt, Tight or dark, as
described being what termed road but some sort of surface is
basically what we are talking about.
ST :
I have both concrete and asphalt.
IB4:
Is it like an asphalt center with concrete border type thing.
.
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S1 :
Possibly so. I think the benches are, the benches not in. a, is
either a concrete or very solid type thing. Its a fixed type
thing as opposed to a bench sitting on a wood
IB4:
Is there a color difference, say from where the bench is sitting,
the surface the bench is sitting on versus
ST:
This is more an open area, more area perhaps in the background.
Beyond there there are other structures but it tends to be more
open in where 083 was in the beginning.
IBA:
He's moved, you're sorta
ST :
I don't know where he is now. He may be from, in fact, he's
probably now at a different perspective than he, than he was in
the beginning. I think he is at a different perspective.
IB4:
OK.
ST :
Perhaps at this other end.
IB4:
You've really just let it all come out www.
Its been
fantastic - just a different - do you have any feeling of any
kind of outside, you know, temperature changes or breezes of some
sort. You've sorta talked about openess and greenery and
$1:
No, its no there are, you know the temperatures kinds cool but
there are no, but there are no, but again that's the outside
environment is rather benign
.
IB4:
Well, I think 083 is probably headed back to his car, leaving
the sight. Anything else you want to add or add to your drawing
or.
ST:
No.
184:
Any other impressions that you had that you didn't mention
initially or.
.
ST:
No.
IB4:
OK. I guess we'll wait for 083 to come back.
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GALLOW , WHITE, BLACK
1
JOBSARVEL
20
7421
1110/7
210700
BLG
PANIC
..
.
OPEN
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.
.
1
1
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Judging Matrix
:
!
1
1
i
5
6
Transcript
A
B
C
119
F
G
Rank each transcript I through 7, best to worst match, at each site
best match = 1
second best match = 2
.... worst match = 7
-
Target
Site
1
--
2
3
:
4
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1

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0
Bel Air Town Hall
.....
39 Hickory Ave Bel Air
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1
Havre de Grace Fire/ Police Department Blog
N. Union Are + Pennington Are
-
1
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3
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3
Bel Air Drive- Du nevie
ON East Side of Churchville on R+ 22
Includes "Big M" Drive-on Restaurant
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4
-
.
Harford Jewish Center
R+ 155 + Easeton Rd 1/2 min west of I95
-
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5
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Cemetery
Corner of Ohio + Eric 85
Havre de grace
2 blocks up 155 from Pizza Hut
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USO Bldg
Franklin + N. Parke St.
Aberdeen
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---
-
c
Jones Produce Farm Stand
On R+ 7 South (1/4mi) of Old Emmortox Rd
O N. pede of RX 7
....
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-- 1
TEAM 2 AS
IB2:
Where do you like to sit, do you want to sit here or do you want to
sit over there? It is now approximately 1300 hourspaypal
This is an
ogexperiment of Project GRILL
FLAME, with S2 as the subject, 182 as the inbound experimenter,
0B5 and 082 are the outbound experimenters. 085 and 0B2 will be at
the target in approximately 30 minutes. It is now approximately
1330 hours and 085 and 0BS and 082 should be at the target. Why
don't you start to tell me what you see. I don't think it is neces-
sary to hold them probably sit right here on the table. Maybe you
haven't been looking or thinking about them so.
S2: No I haven't.
IB2:
Why don't we take a minute for you to focus and relax. You know
there is no roof.
S2:
I don't really get much of an image of anything, which is not too
surprising. Let me think about it for a minute.
IB2:
Sure.
S2:
And see what happens. The only thing I did think about first of all
and I guess this is probably worthy of noting is something dealing
with water.
IB2: · I see.
$2:
Water within the line of sight but I am not sure what exactly how
it looks but I am thinking about it. See if that stays with me or
nat.
IB2:
In other words you see some body of water at their location and
somewhere in the line of sight there is something dealing with water.
S2:
Yes. That's the first impression I got.
IB2: : Does it seem to be far away from you? In other words is it immediate
or are they on the shore?
$2:
It seems close.
IB2:
Kinda like they are standing on the shore.
S2:
Yes. It seems like they are not far away. Now that could be a
quarter of a mile. to a hundred foot or so.
I don't have any feel for
that.
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IB2:
In other words you just think that they are close to where we're
located at the moment.
S2
I don't get any feeling of that, I just feel as though they are
looking at water.
182:
Oh, in other words the body of water is close to us.
S2
Yes, that they are standing close to relatively close.
IB2:
I see.
S2:
Like somewhere like along the Spesutie Narrows or somewhere like
that looking at water.
IB2:
I see.
S2:
But I don't really know that I feel the narrows, I just feel like
thats.
IB2:
That the water is close to the place.
$2:
Yes.
IB2:
OK.
S2:
In other words, I don't get a feeling that they are in a room.
IB2:
Uh huh.
S2
I don't get a feeling that they're standing near buildings.
IB2:
Right. So they are outside huh.
S2
Uh huh.
IB2:
True, there's water water is close. Any man-made speatures?
$2:
No, I'm still not that's what I was trying to get a feel for some-
thing of the scenery.
IB2:
Huh. OK.
1
$2:
When I tried to get this sorta feeling, I seem to
get an idea
of looking not like you would see a map drawing from the top and my
mental picture at that time I see things like roadways, trees same
as a map type.
the only thing I get of an impression is
that it is standing cowh ground level or you know the height of an
individual.
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IB2:
Uh huh.
S2:
That's the only impression I've got so far. And no real details.
I will think about it some more and see if I can come up with any-
thing.
IB2:
Is . taking notes about it?
- $2:
No. It seems like there's islands out in the water a ways. I can't
tell. You know it is really difficult when you do this to tell
whether I'm trying to create something in my own mind.
IB2: Yes. I have experienced that.
S2: And that's the real problem I have.
IB2:
Right.
S2:
That I get the feeling that you're looking out onto the water and
there is a little island out there and I don't get a feeling for
anything around it at all.
IB2:
In other words nothing around them other than the water and the
island out in the water.
S2:
Oh, I'm sure that there has gotta be something around them cause
I feel as though if I created or said it was such and so I would
just be making it up or something.
IB2: My experience and again don't let me subject you to my thoughts but
my feeling is don't worry about it. I know the feeling but try not
to worry about it. Let you know if you feel you are making it up
fine then you are making it up. You know. Kinda let your you know
cause that's what you are trying to get your imagination. You know.
Who knows what it could be. Don't let that inhibit you. In fact,
put in as much detail as much as you want. Don't worry about that.
To hell with it.
S2: Yea, that's exactly what I should do but I gotta stronger. It is a
matter of degree of feeling if I don't. The water I feel more
strong about, not that I guarantee that I am right or wrong. The
other issues or the other things that I would guess are sorta of
like low level secondary bits of information that don't really come
through strong enough to me to mean anything.
IB2: OK.
S2: Therefore, I feel I'd have to use some sort of mental amplification
process to enhance the image and then I feel as though it would
divulge my conscientious mind and then I'd begin to wonder about
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whether I'm doing it by through the making up a picture or actually
getting a message.
. .
.
IB2:
Uh huh.
S2:
There is a distinction between whether I created or whether I
received.
I82:
What about - Is it possible for you to look down and see, perhaps
get an aerial view.
S2:
All right let me try that. Then I get a feeling that they are
somewhere out near Spesutie. Whether I am right or wrong I don't
know. Somewhere on that roadway out towards the narrows which is
what I was thinking the first time around but I couldn't get a view
of which direction.
IB2:
Uh huh.
$2:
If I try to make a map of it.
.
IB2:
Do you want to. try a drawing of what you see?
S2:
Yes, let me try to sketch it because that might be better.
182:
Let me move the table over close to you.
S2:
I don't know directions around here.
IB2:
Is this an aerial view?
S2:
Yes, I am gonna try to make a map. I keep thinking of that causeway
which looks something like that with a road across. it which comes
in something like this. This is what I am thinking about I am
. going to put it down whether I am right or wrong. And that road
runs somewhere back in this direction. The shore line goes somewhere
along thru here. I can't place them this is the only map type of
information I'm thinking.
IB2: Can you draw a picture of what you think they see - in other words
your description of water close and the island in the water?
S2: Well, if I was using commonsense I'd put them here. Cause that is
about the only place you can go over in that area and see anything
but I don't feel like they are there, I feel like they are more back
in here.
IB2:
Let's not worry about that, let's go back to what you think about
what they see. Let's not worry about where they are.
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$2: Well, let's make this one #1, I'm not very good at drawing again
way off I guess the shoreline is very low so this would be the tree
line on the opposite line.
.
IB2: Oh, so you see a shore opposite.
S2:
That's the impression I get. I never really see anything in clear
detail, it is more like an idea of this or that.
IB2:
OK.
$2: And that's the idea, it is more like a feeling.
IB2:
Yes, sure.
S2:
And somewhere up in here there's this would be the edge of the water.
IB2:
And where are they located on your sketch?
S2:
Standing here. This is essentially what your eye would see. Where
is the island? Do you see it?
S2:
No, don't get an island on this one. I got a feeling that the island
is in that direction. Off in this direction there was an island.
But it is not in this field of view.
IB2:
Just relax for a few more minutes and see if we can you know try
again you know try to go through the process all over again, and
see what it leads. Think about them and what you think they see
try to relax and get your mind off it.
S2: OK.
.
IB2:
Try something different. I sometimes note that you try to take '
your mind off it and it looks
Imagine them and
see you know where does your mind lead you to go back. Change, no
problem if you change.
$2: No, I don't get any feeling of change.
IB2: OK.
S2:
I think I need a little more information but not enough I couldn't
really draw much better than that of what I see except this shore-
line was probably rocky and fairly level. I mean not much of a
slope downward.
IB2: Do you see any noticeable trees or anything like that close to them?
S2:
Not close.
.
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IB2: Any signs, houses?
S2:
Houses along the shoreline I think, but you can't make them out
very good.
-
IB2:
So you see some buildings along the shoreline. Along the shoreline
opposite you.
-
S2:
Yes. We felt to the left there are houses in this direction. My
feeling is that they are here which I don't now but a while ago I
thought here. Now I think they are here. There are some houses
here I know that. I am looking generally in that direction but
around from this direction. So what they see is depending on which
way they actually look.
IB2: Are there any fences or anything like that?
S2:
No, I don't know whether it is a fence or a guard rail system. I
believe it is a guard rail system, that runs around post wide type.
But I don't really get a feeling of seeing that that much. But I
do know there is one out there. But can I say I perceive an
image of seeing that, not much. But of course I really have no feel-
ing whether or not that is a good guess.
IB2: Do you see water, do you see any boats?
S2: No, I really don't see anything.
IB2:
Any other people? Do you see people with them?
S2:
No. I am going to try to get an idea of what kind of vehicle they
have. I don't know if I can. Colors are hard to get. I get the
idea that it is yellowish. Maybe I should say light.
IB2: Light color.
S2:
Yes, Tight as opposed to dark.
IB2:
Do you feel that they are standing next to their car?
S2: Not real close but nearby, 20 to 50 feet.
IB2:
And you say it is a light colored vehicle, and yellow popped into your
mind?
S2: Yes, that was the first thing. When I processed that a little bit
it is just light.
IB2: Can you smell anything?
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$2:
No. The imagery that I do get when you do this sort of thing right
or wrong it is sorta like still photography, there is no sense of
being in the situation at least to me. Probably if somebody were
good at it or knew what they were doing they might get a feeling
but I don't get that. Certainly not a sense of smell or things like
breezes or warm hot or cold. Obviously, I would say it is warm
because I know they are not that far away. But I don't have a feel
for that. Then I'd be saying just what my logic wants.
IB2:
But you don't get any impression other than given that you feel
they're at Spesutie and you know that's close you don't have any
feelings for how close or what direction removing the fact that you
see them at Spesutie.
$2:
I've got that in my mind so automatically I'd say that's the direc-
tion.
OK.
IB2:
S2:
Probably the wrong way to do this would be to try to pick out a
locale but on the other hand if I say anything other than what
comes to my mind I feel that I have processed the data.
IB2:
Do you want to try something? Do you want to try again?
Stop for a moment?
!
$2:
Is our time up?
IB2:
I don't know. Do we have a time? They are due back at 1415.
S2:
I think 082 said spend 15 minutes at the site. They left at quarter
til. If it is in fact a true experiment I shouldn't be doing any
more. I would only see them traveling, or else I would just be
processing more information. That's an interesting point.
IB2:
Is there any other observations you'd like to make? Any aspect of
the scene? Any discrete part of-the scene? Anything seem to pop out
at you other than the things we have talked about this far that you
.
:
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had on your mind?
S2: No.
IB2: Let's conclude this session. Time is approximately 1350.
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UNCLASSIFIED
1
.
:
-
:
-
WATER
0
.
SHORELINE
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1

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2
.
.
--
a
. . .
.
TREE LINE-
ISLAN
- THOUSES
--
EDGE OF WATER
ROCKY
FAIRLY LEVEL
.
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.
(B)
TEAM 2.99
IB1: The time. is now 1:27 PM
This is an experiment of
Project GRILL FLAME with S2 as the subject, IBl as the inbound
experimenter and 082 and 083 as the outbound experimenters. In a
few minutes, 082 and 083 will be at their target and we'll start
then. It is now 1:30 PM. 082 and 0B3 should be at their target.
S2 has been relaxing here for awhile. Are you, whenever you are
ready S2.
S2:
I've been running through a sort of search sequence
IB1 :
Concentrating on the individuals?
S2:
Yes. I'm seeing if I can do that and trying to get a sense of both
direction and distance and that sort of thing so that it might give
me an image of the surroundings too.
IB1:
The thing is too, you just try whatever comes to your mind, even
though you're trying to concentrate on individuals, but actually,
whatever image you're viewing, what just comes to your mind, it's
possible that concentrating on the individuals might help.
S2: Yes, I thought I would try that because maybe that by doing it that
way I might begin to get a sort of mental picture of the surround-
ings as well as locations of where they would be.
IB1: We're still here, 082.
S2:
That's because I haven't gotten any real good imagery.
IB1: Take it easy, no rush .. Don't get anxious.
$2:
Yes, I'll try not to. I keep getting the idea of water, but I
don't know if it's
IBL:
Don't worry about it. If you get the idea of water, then that's the
idea.
S2:
I 5
like to sort things like that a few times to see if I think
of other objects or other types of things and that come back to that
one particular thing over and over. Based on that criteria, I
keep coming back to some picture of water of some sort.
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IBT: OK.
S2:
I'm trying to get an idea or feel if it's some large amounts or
small amounts or a small quantity.
IBT: Well, that's really not .important. Let's say you see water, do
you see anything besides the water?
S2: No distinct imagery. It seems to be
IB1 :
Just keep looking. Maybe you're looking at it from one perspective.
Maybe turn around, look from the back or the side. I'm not trying
to say from which side. Of another perspective, turn 90 degrees
or 180 degrees in either direction.
S2: Well, I get a sense of road near the water.
IBT: OK.
S2:
Which is, it looks like it's a fairly decent size roadway, maybe a
divided highway.
IB1: OK, keep going on that road, do you see anything?
S2:
Well, I'm afraid, I get the image of one particular spot all the
time.
IB1:
Don't worry about it.
S2:
IB1:
the spot that you're focusing on?
What is
S2:
It's on Rt 40 along one of those areas where the bay, or the water,
comes up close to Rt 40. . You can see the water from there. There's
a little park area along there or something right along the edge of
the roadway.
IB1: OK, any other distinct
52:
But, I don't really feel comfortable with that, so that's the problem.
IB1:
But don't really worry about that. Once you start worrying whether
you're comfortable or not, that's what you see. Forget about the
comfort now. What about, is there anything distinguishing besides
the water and so-called roadway that you. see? Do you see any
geometrical forms like buildings or towers or bridges? Nothing
particular, but anything of that form?
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$2: It's fairly level terrain. In that region there are some buildings
on the opposite side of the highway. And then across the water,
it's fairly distantly, 1/4, 1/2 a mile, there's some shoreline, low
shoreline type, just like you would see if you're standing along
that little parking area there.
IB1 :
How about shift your view from the top, like
from some elevation, like 50 feet from the top.
S2:
I don't know. I'll tell you, the problem is I don't like the imagery
that I get off of this because I get a feeling. it's being generated
by conscious techniques rather than by
IBI :
Don't
worry about what you're feeling.
S2:
It's possibly the problem and it's kinda a hard thing to sort out
in your mind.
IB1:
You know
you'll tune out the
things which are probably right.
$2:
No.
IB1 :
I mean and as far as being comfortable
is concerned, don't worry about that either.
S2:
I mean comfortable in the sense that
IBT:
Comfortable in what you're seeing
S2:
No, not comfortable in that sense. I'm very comfortable with what
I'm seeing. It's a very nice place to look at. It's uncomfortable
in the fact that I don't feel as though that I can sincerely believe
it's coming from where they are but rather something that somewhere
else is being generated up by subconscious means or whatever.
IB1: Oh, I see. Well, forget about that, don't worry about it. These
are just doubts that are creeping in.
S2: Right.
IBI: Do you still see the water? the road?
S2: I guess the only two things I keep thinking about right offhand.
IBI: How about turning 90 degrees again in some direction, to the left.
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S2:
It's a low hill with woods on it in that direction on that partic-
ular spot down there and that's the only thing I thought of first.
IBI :
OK, so let's turn in the opposite direction, now. 90 degrees in
the opposite direction.
S2:
Another low hill with woods, no buildings.
IB1:
No buildings, Any trees, any shrubbery.
S2:
Standard, fairly low wooded area, like 20-30' wooded area.
IBT: Let's look at the water again. Do you see anything on there?
S2:
There's a, the image I have is something of a, it's not a docking
arrangement, it's something like a, I guess it might be a small
barge or a boat not too far off shore.
IBI: OK. Is there anything else?
$2:
No, nothing else on the water.
IB1:
OK, now turn around 180 degrees from what you are looking at right
now. Turn around 180 degrees and look opposite on the water.
$2:
Well, in that case there's some buildings behind. You look across
the road when you do that. The road is fairly open and it's just
divided highway and there's two or three buildings lined up over
there.
IB1: Anything about those buildings?
S2:
No, just nondescript type of buildings, small buildings. One of
them is a repair shop of some sort.
IB1 :
Yes.
S2:
And this I know from going by there. There's a radiator shop there.
IBT:
Don't worry about it., Now you're letting your conscious
S2:
Yes. I'm saying that's what bothers me about this whole thing
because I get a feeling that this is not what I should be coming up
with. Let me talk about this just for a moment because it might
be more comfortable.
IB1: OK, we've got time.
$2:
If I ever did come up with an area that they went to that I knew very
well and I got a real strong image of that, this doesn't relate to
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me that way, the dominant image I got was water with no real
distinct thing, so then I feel I might have embellished it by saying
it's that particular location where the water is visible, but I
know that place so if I ever did get one of that sort and if I got
real good at it, say, and could do that, it would seem rather strange
because then I know what the surroundings look like, having been
there before and then it would be a problem. Well,
Athat a guy identified so and
So was located at some municipal playground or something of that
sort and I think he gave in that case a very good description of
what it was like cause he knew the terrain and it was a correct identi-
fication.
IB1 :
Nothing wrong with that.
$2:
There's nothing wrong with it, except in order for that to happen,
I should feel real happy or feel real convinced that that is the
place they're located, but I don't feel that way and I feel as though
what's happened here is that I've gotten an image of them looking
at water from some distance and then some sort of memory bank search
and said well gee, that's the place it must be, and from there on
I think
IB1:
There used to be a barge out there
S2:
There used to be, I think, and I think that's what I've conjured up
in my own mind. That's what I mean when I say I don't really feel
comfortable with that definition of that thing.
IBI:
I guess it's hard to do, when you sit down, you just erase your
memory and that's the part which is very hard to do because you start
doubting yourself.
S2:
That's right. That's what makes it difficult
IB1 :
We're getting close to it. Do you feel, you got another minute or
so, can you see anything else?
S2:
Well, you never know. It could be correct. I don't have any feeling
it is.
IBT: I don't think you'll get any confidence. It's hard to get confidence
unless you get,
S2: Turn the recorder off.
.
..
.
=
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UNULA
-
I
TEAM 2
IB4:
It is now 1 :15 A ****
This is an experiment of
Project GRILL FLAME with S2 as the subject, IB4 as the inbound
experimentar and 083 as the outbound experimenter. 083 should be
at the site in about 15 minutes. OK, $2 it's 1:30, just relax
and let me know what comes to your mind.
S2:
OK. I don't really get any imagery yet.
·
IB4:
Do you have any feel for what direction 083 is in or how far away
he might be from here?
$2:
No, not now.
IB4:
OK, just
S2:
But when I do get senses it seems like I do get some sort of
flashes of something every now and then, but I haven't got a
feeling of anything. It's just like knowing but
IB4:
Just take your time, don't worry about it.
S2:
Yes, I either did or I don't
IB4:
Right
S2:
I just have to wait until it does. So far nothing.
IB4:
That's perfectly fine. It's better than trying to force something.
$2:
Uh huh - Well
S2: The type of area that I get a feeling for, although an initial
feel, is open and trees.
IB4:
Any feel for the terrain?
S2:
No, just that it's an open area with trees. No other feeling of
the area at the moment.
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IB4: Uh huh.
S2:
I84:
S2:
-
IB4:
S2:
IB4:
$2:
IB4:
S2:
IB4:
S2:
IB4:
S2:
IB4:
$2:
IB4:
Any other feelings about
S2:
No, on this one no, nothing yet, other than just open area and
trees around in the area. I can't tell.
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UNCLASSIFIED
IB4:
Anything on distance yet?
S2:
No. It seems as though I get a different feel about this thing
IB4:
In what way?
S2:
Well, I can't tell, it feels like maybe it's hard to define that.
It might be the weather itself cause the light level is obviously
lower.
IB4:
Uh huh.
**
$2:
IB4:
Uh huh, yes, definitely.
$2:
Of course, I can't say if it's related to the weather or whether
it's related to the state of relaxation or the ability to receive
messages or what.
IB4:
Uh huh.
S2:
But you do get a feeling of
just like it is even in this room, relatively dark.
IB4:
Dark, uh huh.
.
S2:
And a feeling of chilliness, not real cold, but chilliness.
IB4:
It's damp.
S2:
No, I still get no imagery or any feel for structures. I'll have to
wait til 083 starts casually noting structures. That's probably
when I'll start getting a feeling for a building, if there is one.
I84:
We have talked
S2: Yes, with me.
: 4
IB4:
There's no doubt.
S2:
IB4:
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S2: The conscious thing.
IB4:
Right.
S2:
.
IB4;
Uh huh. OK, well just relax and see what you get.
S2:
Yes, I'll just have to wait a little longer and see if I do get
anything else. There is shrubbery around and it must be in some
pattern, it looks as if though it's not a wild type of layout so
it's something structured some way.
IB4: OK, any colors?
SZ: No, just the greenery, and that's greenery type shrubbery, I don't
get a feel for anything else.
IB4:
Uh huh.
$2:
The layout, I am trying to get an idea of what it would look like
from the top down.
%
I34:
OK.
$2:
What the scenery appears to be. You know this feeling of some sort
of multiple structures in the area, but I can't get them laid out
and sorted out.
184:
But there are structures.
$2:
Yes, more than one.
IB4:
OK.
. :
S2:
From the top it looks like there is more than one.
184:
OK, from the top do you see any height discrimination between the
structures.
S2:
No, no, I don't get any of that sort of clearness, but or even a
tendency of size or whether they're clumped together or not, I
don't get that feel right now.
IB4:
Can you come down to the ground level and take a look at the structures.
.
$2:
I'll try. It seems to be a fairly busy area, busy in some way or
other, as opposed to somewhere where people don't go very often.
-
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IB4:
OK.
S2:
And it seems to be near a road
1.7
IB4: OK. So you see some sort of, traffic pattern.
S2:
Well, I get a
IB4:
A feel for that
S2:
Yes.
IB4:
OK.
-
$2 :*
the feeling of motion but not a feeling of whether or not
traffic is going by.
[84: Uh huh, but some sort of motion feeling.
S2:
Yes, like some place where people are moving around a lot.
IB4:
Do you see any light or dark differentials, say light buildings,
dark surface, or
S2:
I got a feeling there is a dominant building, but I can't quite
at the from the ground level I can't sort out where it sets with
respect to the others and.
what it's shape is.
IB4: Uh huh.
$2: In other words.
IB4:
Right,
. ..
S2:
IB4:
Right, OK.
S2:
Which is the way most buildings are rectangular.
appears to be more of a rectangular structure.
IB4:
OK, fine.
S2:
We could put it in some sort of but I don't get a feel for the sur-
face of it or its, the dominant one I think, I don't think it is
too high, maybe equivalent to two stories which would be 20 feet
or so and size, I can't tell.
IB4: OK.
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$2: I think it is kinda square.
IB4:
Are these other structures attached to it?
S2:
No, everything I get a feel for is separate.
IB4:
Separate.
$2:
A separate thing.
IB4:
OK. Where is this building in relation to the road?
...
.
S2:
It seems to face it pretty much face it, and there's well I guess
the main raodway that I get a feel for is a fairly frequently
traveled type of roadway, I don't know which one, but I have a
feel for that.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
But then there's a, there's off-road positions, or off-road capabil-
ities for some type of traffic, and it's either I don't know whether
it's, I think it's a combination of cars and people type like
walkways to building but I don't get good detail on that.
IB4:
Where's the shrubbery in relation to the main structure?
S2:
Well, there's a lot of shrubbery. I get a feel for some of it
that's up there near the building and around and then there's places
like it's been landscaped.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
In the field of view.
IB4:
And for walkways or whatever, you have some feel of maybe concrete
or asphalt or
S2:
Walkways.
IB4:
Walkways, OK.
S2: I can't tell, I don't get a feel for that really.
IB4:
Can you go in back of the structure?
S2:
It seemed more like concreted, but I, as opposed to gravel or just
dirt.
IB4:
OK. Can you go in back of the structure? Anything back there?
$2:
Well, not dramatic, it seems like there's more parking or places
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for vehicles and a slight change, the ground elevation is not much
dropped off but it seems to be a little different in height, I
can't get a feel for how much.
IB4:
Some sort of a sloping affect in other words?
$2:
Uh huh. It maybe seems like it goes down when you go back to the
back side, but it must be very, very minor or very low small amount
of the slope.
1;
IB4: OK, can you go around to one of the sides of the building?
S2:
Yes. You don't get, I don't get a good feel for view on either
side which either means there is something else along the sides
or that the blocks off of this one or else I'm just not seeing,
I'm not sure. It seemed like from the sides there's this multiple
building problem kinda gets in the way and you know how far away
you are.
1
IB4: OK.
S2:
You don't see that one clearly from the sides. I can't sort out
that very well.
IB4:
Any feeling yet on the surface of the building?
S2:
No, brick I think, that type of surface but I can't, it must, it's
not just single it's not brick alone either, it seems to be in
places something else that's lighter.
IB4:
Lighter than the brick.
S2:
Yes, it might be wood siding or it might be something like windows
with under the bottom part of the windows not brick or something
like that and I really can't tell for sure.
IB4:
Is there a path or any kind of thing leading up to the front of
this building or is it just sorta there?
S2: No, those paths or that walkway system go there.
IB4: To the front of the building.
S2:
I don't get a feel of the regular straight pattern, it's just a
maybe a flowing walkway system or something like that.
IB4:
Do you have a feel for anything inside of this main structure?
S2:
No, not now. It seems to be a lot of glass in the building or what
looks like glass and the side facing to them nearest to the road
seems to have a good bit of glass.
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IB4: OK. Any other details $2, anything else that comes to your mind?
S2:
I didn't get any feel for the interior other than I feel that maybe
the, it's two stories I get a feel for that, and the second story
line, where the glass is, you can it's almost like the second floor
is visible, sorta like some bank fronts or things like that.
IB4: OK. Again, do you have any feel for direction or distance.
S2:
Not today. Not any immediate ones. Let's see, if I vote on that
what would I get?
-
IB4:
S2:
IB4:
S2:
Pretty much in line to that side of where you are, whatever that
is.
IB4:
I'm gonna have to figure out what direction we're in, but OK we know
it's that way.
S2:
That way, that wayish.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
I don't know where that ends up, where's that out in the middle
of bay somewhere or something.
IB4:
Now wait a minute, the bay's that way.
S2:
I don't know.
184:
The water is that way. That way's toward 359. Well, I don't know.
S2:
I don't think so.
IB4:
Now wait a minute, we're on the side of the building aren't we?
S2:
That's the front of this building.
IB4: The front's over there. We'll figure that out afterwards. Any other
S2:
That's the only thing I got as opposed to anything else.
I84:
OK.
$2: You zap around about 5 or 6 times and you seem to want to stop that
way.
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IB4: OK.
$2: And that's all.
IB4:
I think 0B3 has left.
S2:
Oh yes, I didn't know what time it is.
IB4:
That's perfectly fine. I didn't remind you either.
S2:
Probably has. I didn't get any good imagery of drawing but I got
a feel for the fact that there's more than one and that's about
it.
IB4:
OK, I'm gonna turn the machine off.
S2: OK, I'll make a sketch.
-
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I
,
TEAM 2.
--
IBL:
It is 1:17
.This is a tis
experiment of Project GRILL FLAME, with S2 as the subject, IBI as
the inbound experimenter, 082 and 085 as the outbound experimenters.
0B2 and 085 should be at the target in about 10 to 12 minutes.
IB1 :
Alright $2 it is about 1:30 and 082 and 085 should be at the target.
Just relax and see what you can see. Let me know about it. Don't
try to see anything. Just let it come to your mind. I think you
are trying too hard. Just let it go. Don't try to see anything.
Something will just show up. Nobody forces you. No time. Don't
think of any time limit. I know, don't let it occur to you. There
is all the time in the world. Don't look at the clock.
$2:
I don't see any image. I keep thinking of a building, but you
never know whether you are doing that on your own.
IB1:
Don't worry about it. Don't worry, you think what you are seeing
and maybe that is what it is. Don't try to analyze whether you
never know or you do know or whether you know something. If it comes
just say it.
S2:
That is the only thing I think of is a building.
IBI:
Don't try to destroy the building. Do you see any kind of a shape?
Do you see any outline?
S2: No. I just get the impression of that - no outline.
IB1 :
Alright, you get an impression of a building. Do you get an impres-
sion of anything square or maybe it is elongated.
S2: No. I can't tell. It seems like it might be more than one story.
IBI :
Alright, fine - You are talking about stories mm
Don't try to
think of a building. Try to think of a rectangular shape - is it
a rectangular shape or a vertical shape?
S2: Vertical shape.
IB1:
OK - vertical shape. You are getting somewhere, keep going. Don't
force it but if that is what you feel don't try to think that it
might be some frequency thing just keep going without thinking why
you are doing it. Any colors?
: .
S2: No. No colors.
..
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IB1: No colors. OK. Anything around it besides that vertical shape? Can
you see anything to the left or the right?
$2:
Well, I got a feeling of trees but I don't get any feeling for how
they are setting.
IBI: OK. No problem.
S2:
In the line of sight of the observer to the building.
IBI: OK. How about can you shift your view to a different direction?
For instance, right now you have the trees in the line of sight, how
about if you look at it from a little bit elevated view.
$2:
I think it might be a walkway of some sort.
IBI: OK - Alright. It looks like a path you say right.
$2: You can't use the word looks like.
IBI: OK.
S2: Feeling of a path through some trees toward a building.
IB1: OK. It doesn't have to be a path. You just see something. Right?
S2:
Yes.
IB1 :
Go ahead.
$2: And probably sort of a feeling a straight line perspective. That
way. But I don't know.
IB1: Don't speculate. OK, you still don't see any colors?
S2:
No.
IBI :
Like are there any contrasting not colors but is like dark and
gray and white? That walkway whatever it is does that have any in
relation to the rest is it light is it dark?
S2: It seems like it is concrete.
?
IBT: Well, is it light? Is it different from whatever the surroundings
are? Is the shade lighter or darker?
S2: It seems like a shadow.
IBI: Do you see anything to the right? Take a look to the right. Is
there anything to the right hand side of this that stands out?
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$2:
No.
IB1:
To the left?
S2:
Something taller than the building. I get an impression of to the
left.
..
IB1 :
OK. It is taller - don't say building. It is taller than whatever
vertically you see. Right?
$2:
It is taller than whatever is at the end of that walkway. I shouldn't
say building because I don't even know what it is.
IB1 :
Yes, because if you say building you will get used to believing it
is a building which you don't know what it is. It is something
vertical. Does this something vertical have a look at it from the
top, does it have any length, does it have any width?
S2:
The first reaction I got is that from the top it would not be square
it would be a round shape.
IB1:
OK.
S2:
Maybe it is an elipse or maybe it is round.
IBI :
OK.
S2:
Those are the two sorts of shapes I get in mind.
IB1 :
Does it have a length that thing when you look at it from the top?
Does it continue and stop somewhere or is it? Is it?
$2:
It seems like the base is wider than the top. That's the impres-
sion I get.
IB1 :
OK.
:
S2:
I can't tell anything else about it.
IB1:
OK. Alright. Let's not worry about it now. How about that path
or whatever that you see, is it running into that thing or over
that thing or does it stop or beside it whatever that thing is the
walkway or whatever else?
..
-
$2:
Whatever it was seems to run towards. it cut I couldn't tell if it
went straight or to the side or what.
.:
IBI: Alright. OK. Let's try again. Now you still don't see any colors?
S2:
No.
-
.
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IB1:
No colors. OK. Anything around it besides that vertical shape? Can
you see anything to the left or the right?
S2:
Well, I got a feeling of trees but I don't get any feeling for how
they are setting.
. .
IBI: OK. No problem.
S2:
In the line of sight of the observer to the building.
IB1:
OK. How about can you shift your view to a different direction?
For instance, right now you have the trees in the line of sight, how
about if you look at it from a little bit elevated view.
S2:
I think it might be a walkway of some sort.
IBT: OK - Alright. It looks like a path you say right.
S2:
You can't use the word looks like.
IBT: OK.
S2:
Feeling of a path through some trees toward a building.
IBI :
OK. It doesn't have to be a path. You just see something. Right?
1
S2:
Yes.
IB1 :
Go ahead.
S2:
And probably sort of a feeling a straight line perspective. That
way. But I don't know.
IBI: Don't speculate. OK, you still don't see any colors?
$2:
No.
.
IBT:
Like are there any contrasting not colors but is like dark and
gray and white? That walkway whatever it is does that have any in
relation to the rest is it light is it dark?
S2:
It seems like it is concreta.
IB1:
Well, is it light? Is it different from whatever the surroundings
are? Is the shade lighter or darker?
S2:
It seems like a shadow.
IB1 :
Do you see anything to the right? Take a look to the right. Is
there anything to the right hand side of this that stands out?
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$2: Uh huh.
IBI :
Can you see anything? Why don't you just relax and see if you can
see anything else. I don't know if you still see this vertical
thing or not but does it have whatever it is - is it smooth or does
it have any kind of patterns?
S2:
Some kind of patterns, I can't make out what they are.
IBI :
Alright, it does have a pattern. OK, that's good enough. Now try
again the side. Take a look at this thing from the side. It seems
like I don't know what direction you are looking at.
S2:
I don't know if this is side or not that I'm looking at.
IB1 :
Or whatever - so try to look at it from a different side.
S2:
I'll move around.
IB1: Move around 90 degrees.
$2:
The feeling looks the same from that side.
IB1 :
Alright. Is it wider or does it seem to have the same width or is
it wider?
S2
I don't know, it seems like it might be circular.
IBT: Alright.
$2: It seems like a circular object.
IBT :
OK.
S2: Tapering.
IB1: OK. It is tapering, tapering where, on the sides?
S2:
The base is wider than the top.
IB1:
OK.
S2:
May have something at the top, I can't tell.
IBT: What about the pattern - still smooth or do you see any pattern?
1.
S2:
No, it is not smooth.
IBT:
It is not smooth. OK.
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.. .
S2:
I don't really get anything outside right now.
IBI :
Can you - you're not getting anything right now.
S2:
Nothing else on it.
..
.
.
IBI :
Alright. There's no use forcing anything else. We are almost
getting to the time where these where 082 and OBS are going to be
leaving that area. I don't think you should force to get anything
else if you just don't see it. I think we got a pretty decent
description of something.
$2:
That's a description of something. I am not sure what it is.
IBI:
Well, I think at the moment let's stop right now because 085 and
082 have left there.
..
:
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TEAM 2 3
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--
IBI :
It is now 1:20 PM, Em
This is a @
experiment
of Project GRILL FLAME with S2 as subject, IBl as the inbound
experimenter and 082 and 083 as the outbound experimenters. The
outbound experimenters have picked up their envelope and they're
on their way to the target.
IB1 :
It is now 1:30 PM and 082 and 083 should be at the target. OK S2,
you might as well relax and tell me what you see.
S2:
Nothing.
.F
IBI:
Relax, something is going to come.
S2:
Yes,
It takes 2-3 minutes before
I get a definable image.
IB1:
How about if you concentrate on 082 and 083 and see what happens.
$2:
OK. I don't get anything as far as ideas of or I should say
imagery in regards to the two of them. I can get some sort of
information or something which seems as though I see them walking
around but I don't know how to relate that to any particular place.
I really, like if I try to concentrate on them, I lose what little
bit of imagery I get on the place.
IB1 :
OK.
$2:
Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know.
IBT :
OK, if that's the way you feel, unfocus from them and try to focus
on the surroundings. I don't know if my interruptions disturb
your mental process or not.
S2:
No.
IB1:
OK, why don't you just ... Are you blanking yourself out?
.
S2:
What I get is sort of ideas is the way to start off. @# ***
I don't know how to
separate out whether its consciously or subconsciously created ideas.
spend a few minutes sort of running an internal
debate with myself as to whether or not these are correct. So I
ask myself a series of questions of things like is what I am getting
an inside scene or an outside scene?
:
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IBT: I wouldn't worry about that. If you're getting something, just go
ahead. If you spend time on this, you're just rationalizing and
analyzing.
:-
S2:
But no it didn't seem like that.
IBI: OK, or analyzing, you see. But if you ask yourself questions,
you're analyzing it.
S2:
I seem to ask the question two or three or four times and say
OK when I get the answer back, I'm not sure where the answer comes
from, I take the most majority vote.
IB1: Does it make you feel comfortable?
S2:
Yes.
IBT: So go right ahead.
$2:
but very, very crude type imagery.
I just get imagery,
IBI: All right. The imagery is fine. We can always focus in.
$2:
So far, the only thing I've got as imagery is some sort of walkway,
but I can't figure out what it is.
IBT :
Looks like a walkway.
S2:
Yes, but it seems like the first time I got the image was like a
regular sidewalk type of thing, but more than just one sidewalk.
Not like someone standing on a normal two to three foot width of
concrete, more like its in the shade of concrete as opposed to
asphalt and looking down a straight sidewalk it seemed as though
there's, rather than a solid expanse of concrete, there's concrete
running in strips and I have one running straight ahead for awhile
and then one coming in from an angle, like straight across from here.
.
IB1:
Keep going.
$2:
Like that sort of image.
IBT:
That's fine, anything else?
S2:
Not yet, I haven't the feel yet for what is there other than that.
So far, nothing else.
IB1: OK, try to expand your view.
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S2:
It's sort of a pattern, some sort of a pattern that I keep trying
to generate. I can't quite place it. It's not a regular pattern
in the sense of. I don't know, I can't tell what it is yet. Let
me look over it more and see if I can get a better picture.
IBT :
When you say these are concrete or whatever it is, do they have
boundaries? Is there anything outside of them? Is it a different
color or shape?
$2:
If I stay down at the normal five to six feet above ground elevation,
it seems to be a broad view as opposed to a narrow view. It's
not a very confined space.
3
IB1 :
So you don't see it as a well-defined with borders?
S2:
No.
IB1 :
How about expanding your view. Can you look at it from a little
bit higher, from a different direction?
S2:
Let me try that.
IB1 :
Or look beyond to the horizon.
S2:
I was trying to look down, if I got above that particular piece of
terrain and looked down. Then I get a feeling that there are
buildings around if I look from above, but that the buildings are
not that close. That doesn't seem right to me.
IB1 :
Don't worry if it seems right or not. Whatever impression you get,
if you feel there are buildings, fine.
S2:
It's just a feeling I get.
IBT :
Yes.
S2:
I'm not sure that they're buildings, they're something.
IB1 :
OK.
Its got a geometrical sharp shape. .
$2:
Yes. Everything seems to be geometrical and well defined.
IBT :
OK. Do you still see those strips without borders?
..
$2:
Yes. Concrete strips or strips of some sort with patterns in the
ground plane.
IB1: OK, How about those shapes that you saw, which might be buildings,
might be anything. How about if you focus in on these things from
ground level but from a distance away.
3
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S2:
OK, but I've got to figure out how far away.
IBT :
Oh, about a few hundred feet.
S2:
Let's try that. I get a feeling of one of the buildings higher than
the other or the others: There's more than one I get a feeling
when I move back and it's probably a sense of it being almost like
a tower, like a tower which the other buildings are not.
IBI :
Do you see any specific shapes being associated with them, other
than them being square or rectangular?
$2:
Yes. I keep thinking of a hexagon pattern, but when I got up to
try to look down on the ground, I kept thinking that the hexagonal
pattern is in the ground itself and not so much reproduced on the
buildings, but the walkway things I keep thinking of seem to be
somewhat laid out in a pattern that either intersects like it forms
a hexagonal or forms a six-sided shape to them someway.
IB1 :
OK
$2:
I can't define it though. I can't get it clear in my mind.
IBI :
How about if you shift directions again at ground level and look
again. What do you see? Right now you've been looking at buildings.
Suppose you shift 90 degrees and look straight ahead.
S2:
It seems to be, if you do that you get sort of a wall I guess. I
don't know where I'm going 90 degrees from. I don't know where I
was going from.
IB1 :
OK. Suppose you shift 90 degrees to your right, like counterclockwise.
S2:
That's where I went, to my right.
IBI :
Oh, OK.
S2:
But then I said I don't know where I started from.
Zero azimuth isn't
very well defined but at least I went 90 degrees and got a picture
of a looking at a wall on a side of a building.
IB1:
A wall?
S2:
Yes, which was light brick or light but I can't get any texture off
of it but lightness.
IB1:
What about, does it have any height?
S2:
Yes, it was. The first thing I got was about between two to three
stories, about 20-30 feet and about the height region. Not a pure
...
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rectangle, but it seemed as if the left side of it as I view it
was higher and it went sloping backwards. Sort of as if you were
looking at a concrete block building, something like that, which
had no windows in it.
IB1: What about vegetation?
.
S2:
Don't really come up with any.
.-
IB1:
No vegetation.
$2:
Nothing that seems to dominate.
IB1 :
I see. How about taking a look at the ground again. Look from a
top view. Do you see any other shade. Do you see grass, for
instance?
S2:
Yes, it looks like I see a little grass around but it doesn't seem
like grass is dominant. It looks like. It's hard to sort that out.
It looks like it's an area where people primarily walk or if it's
an area where a pattern had been created in an otherwise smooth,
like concrete area, colored concrete area, something like that maybe.
IBI :
Let's try this. If it's a
building, can you take a look inside? Can you kind of get in and.
see anything?
S2:
I can't get anything in the front so if I go back to the side view
I got an image the first time that seemed to be better than most
of the others. I almost get the feeling of some sort of. I'm still
Looking at the outside, though. I still haven't gotten myself
.
mentally inside. If I try. The inside seems to be and I have to
define it in very crude terms. It seems to be cluttered I guess is
the word I would say which means it's not open, not super high
ceilings, the ceilings seem to be higher than a house would be which
would put in on the order of 12 feet ceilings or that region but all
I'm seeing is higher than.
IB1:
What about the volume, you say it's cluttered.
$2:
Yes, like there are aisleways, counters and things like that but
you aren't able to just roam open thru the building. I don't know
what it is. I have no feeling if the cluttered aspect is due to it's
like an auditorium or a retail store. Looking at it from the side,
it almost looked like a movie theater.
..
..
IB]: They are getting ready to leave now. Do you want to make any draw-
ings?
$2: OK. I'll see what I can do.
5
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IB1:
Whatever you remember.
these things stick in your memory
S2:
Yes
IB1 :
OK, so now's as good a time as any. I'm going to shut the tape
recorder off now.
-
.
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(F
TEAM 2
IB2:
Good afternoon.
The time is
approximately 1300 hours. This is an experiment associated with
Project GRILL FLAME. My name is 182. I am the inbound experimenter.
This afternoon my subject is $2. The outbound experimenters are
OB2 and 083. $2, the time is about 1:30, why don't we start and.
S2: Can I start thinking about?
IB2:
082 and 083 and tell me what you see.
S2: OK, whenever I see anything I will.
IB2:
Would you like another chair?
S2:
No, I don't really get any imagery yet; *
I'll just wait until I get something that seems to de a
recurring type of thing.
IB2:
We got all kinds of time.
S2
Yes. It seems as though if I wait a while I get something that
maybe filters where as if I start right off.
IB2: Try to get something.
$2:
I'll have to just wait a minute - see what appears.
IB2:
I understand exactly what you mean.
S2:
I don't really get any imagery
at all.
IB2:
Huh. Well take your time. There's certainly no hurry.
S2:
No. I'll wait.
IB2:
You know, the point is that we have to, we don't have to rush at all.
Just relax, the heck with it.
..
S2:
Well, so far I don't get anything other than a feeling of sort of
trees and shrubbery and maybe flowers or things like that.
IB2:
Huh.
S2:
But no distinct anything and I don't even know if that's - I'm not
sure that that's a real 'image or not. I keep trying to come up
with any sort of details of it and so far nothing.
-
. ......
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IB2: Don't be concerned with details: Try to get an overall impression
of the position that they are in.
S2:
I get an overall impression that just like an absence of landscape
that is you know like you would be seeing out in a distance. I don't
get any feel of that.
IB2: Uh huh.
$2: All I get is a feeling of surrounding, almost surrounding trees. Like
if you were in a woods or something that you didn't have a clear line
of sight in any long distance of any. So far that has been the
prevalent impression.
IB2: You say in a woods.
$2: Or in something like a area where you are surrounded by greenery in
general.
IB2: I see. Do you?
S2: I can't get anything as to what it would be, or what it is.
IB2: Can you kinda get an idea of what perspective you are looking in,
.
are you with them, are looking away from them, or standing in front?
$2:
No
a sense of location of individuals. Its just
a sense of feeling the surroundings not as though I was looking
through any other eyes or aware of the presence of any other indivi-
dual or anything like that, but just a feeling that the overall
imagery of what was there.
IB2: Uh huh.
S2:
But not enough to really find anything better than that now. Let me
take another minute or two and maybe I will. I don't know.
IB2:
Relax. Just look at the surroundings, see if you see any shapes
or have any impressions, any geometries.
$2:
Seems like the trees that are there if I start trying to think about
those someway or other that they are high as opposed to low - they
don't have any you know like 60 feet.
IB2: Uh huh.
S2: That type of heighth which I consider to be a pretty high tree.
IB2: So, is this an open area surrounded by it?
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S2:
No. I don't get a feeling of openess at all. I don't get a feeling
of wide open landscape at all.
IB2:
Do you get the feeling of a small clearing or a small opening or is
there among objects like?
S2:
More like among objects.
IB2:
I see.
S2:
No feeling of.
IB2:
Do you see these objects as being tall, slender, fat, short?
S2:
Well, I feel like they're a mixture, like in terms of trees, like they
are high.
IB2:
I see. Then they are among these things,
52:
In among as opposed to standing way off looking at. It could be a
path or it could just be a wooded area.
IB2:
Do you see a path?
$2:
No. I don't get the - I don't say that I am seeing a path all I
get is a feeling in among green stuff.
182: I see.
S2:
And I haven't had a feeling of color of anything before but this is
the only time that I had a feeling of green.
IB2;
I see.
S2:
And probably and I can't tell if its truthfully whether its just a
color green or green shrubbery or what.
IB2:
Huh. What's green, the objects green or?
S2:
Yes.
IB2:
The objects are green.
$2: Seems like the surrounding is basically green.
IB2: Do you get any idea of the density or how close the things are -
any feeling for that?
$2: No. Close as opposed to far but that's all.
IB2:
I meant in terms of for instance if they are among these statuesque
type things like trees for instance any idea of the spacing between
the trees or these tall objects?
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S2:
No, not really, I think that they are fairly close but the objects
are fairly close but that not just trees are present but lower
shrub type or flowery type things maybe.
IB2:
Are in amongst these things also.
$2:
Yes, they're seem to be like in an area where you would walk through
a section like that. All I am really dominantly getting is that
sort of thing as opposed to buildings and structures. I haven't
gotten anything like that where I have gotten imagery or feelings,
feelings I think is the more appropriate word, but I haven't gotten
the feeling of structures.
IB2:
Uh huh.
S2:
I don't get a feeling.
IB2:
Huh.
S2:
Like man-made structures.
IB2:
I see. How about where are you situated, are you in amongst these
objects that you are talking?
$2:
Uh huh, Yes.
182:
Can you elevate yourself a little, walk around, displace your point
of view at all?
S2:
I don't know. I'll try.
IB2:
Try to think of that, kind of move around if you can a little bit.
$2:
I get a feeling of a road but I can't tell exactly where it is in
some open areas in the vicinity.
182:
Is that right?
S2:
But no, again nothing, if I keep trying to think whether I get a.
feeling or sense of structure, I just don't get anything.
IB2:
Not so much structures, but how about relationships of this.
$2:
I can't get anything on the geometry or any specific layout of any
other surroundings is. I just don't get anything like that.
IB2:
I see.
$2:
Other than I think there is a road nearby, but where it is I don't
know.
IB2:
What makes you feel this?
.
.
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$2:
I don't know, how do I know any of this stuff? You can't answer a
question like that. I got a feeling there's a road nearby which
is probably true most anywhere you go in this country. Nothing else.
Maybe a little bit of intermittent sky views. Not full sky.
---
IB2:
You're looking up now? .
S2:
Uh huh. Seems Tike a rather nebulous type of sensing like I have
had what I thought were better imageries than this. This does not
appear to be that well defined.
IB2: If we could define imagery in clear thoughts and clear visions, what
you have or what you see, this environment appears to be cluttered
to you or is this?
S2: No this environment appears too well cluttered is somewhat an appro-
priate word.
IB2:
Uh huh.
S2:
It appears to be surrounded by if I can make a very general statement
about it.
IB2:
Sure, Uh huh.
S2:
Vegetation in some form, whether it be trees, bushes, flowers, that
sort, with high trees nearby, matter of fact probably in the middle
· of them. And cool as opposed to a hot feeling.
IB2: Well, that is pretty interesting. You feel cool.
S2: Like a shaded area would be.
IB2:
I see. Huh. That's very interesting.
S2
And not bright, direct sunlight with maybe intermittent light coming
thru every now and then.
IB2:
Uh huh. Do you get kinda of a, in this cluttered or spackled environ-
ment you get this feeling of trees or areas that are bright and
then dark like a shaded area intermittent?
S2: Uh huh, Yes.
IB2:
I see.
$2:
That is what I was saying.
IB2:
Go back, you made an interesting observation, it was cool like it
was shaded.
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S2: Uh huh, like you were in a forested area.
IB2: I see. You also mentioned green.
S2:
Of course, I can't tell, I really cannot say absolutely if this is
an environment which is. like a green house. You know I got the feel -
ing I would get the same impression if it were a green house.
...
IB2:
Huh.
S2:
And you are inside it, but I can't tell whether it is or is in an
outside area, in a wooded area or what. Cause, I am just not getting
enough imagery to tie it down anymore than just these very, very
general impressions. The general impressions would be as cool as
opposed to hot, shaded as opposed to high on some hill with bright
sun outside. And generally no man made structures in the immediate,
say within a 100 feet or so, or even in line of sight.
.₸
IB2:
I see. How about the, again going back to the.
S2:
But you know, while I am on this business of man made structures
bothers me because if it were a green house that would satisfy the
same basic criteria as long as you were in certain portions of it,
but I don't have enough imagery to say. If you had, if you really
stand in a green house you know you are not outdoors, but the type
imagery I am getting I couldn't tell if I were there or out in the
woods somewhere, which means in one case you would be in a man made
structure and in the other case you wouldn't, I can't differentiate.
It kinda bothers me cause it seems like I should be able.
IB2:
When you mentioned something being tall how does that correspond
with the.
S2:
Well it doesn't, you know it really doesn't relate.
IB2:
I see.
S2: I was just speaking of the sense of feelings.
IB2:
Huh. I think it is getting around to a quarter of 2, why don't
we turn on the lights and see if we can rapidly portray some of the.
S2:
OK.
IB2: Some of the things that you see.
S2: Oh, yes, its like ten til.
.
.
.
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TEAM 2 5
IB4:
This is an experiment of Project GRILL FLAME. It is
1:15. The' subject is $2, inbounder is IB4, the out-
bound experimenters are 083 and 086. They should be at their site
in about 15 minutes. OK $2 it's 1:30, relax and just tell me what
you see, any impressions you have.
S2:
I don't have any yet.
IB4:
Just take your time.
:.
S2
The first thing I get which is the only thing so far that I have
gotten as a feeling is the feeling of traffic.
IB4:
So wherever they are there is some sort of
s2:
Movement of something. I started to say traffic but I'm not sure
that it's that, but whatever they're seeing it seems to have either
motion around them or what they're looking at is moving or something
of that nature, that's the only feeling I've gotten so far.
IB4: OK, do you have any feeling of any kind of greenery you know as
if being an outside with lots of grass or
$2:
Yes, I can't tell what it is but it seems like there's something
there. Trying to sort it out is a problem.
IB4:
Well, just don't worry about sorting it out, just sort of say
what comes to your mind.
S2:
Yes, that's what I'm trying to say, I get a feeling of both - I
can't tell whether it's open terrain, I think open terrain.
IB4:
OK. Do you have any impression at all what direction they're in?
S2:
From where we are?
IB4:
From where we are, Uh huh. Or how far away they are from us?
S2: No. Direction I get a feeling for let's see the first time I felt
something when I was facing quite the other way but now it would
feel more like that general way, that way, whatever that is.
..
IB4:
Whatever way that is. I have no sense of direction but anyhow
$2: It would be about 45 degrees with respect to this room.
-.
i
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IB4:
OK.
S2:
Which would put you somewhere off in that general vicinity, but no
real feel of distance. If I try to relate it, it seems as though
fairly close,
I guess is the only way I can
get.
IB4:
OK. OK, that's fine.
$2:
And I still get the feeling of motion around them, it's not a de-
tailed imagery,
but it's sort of a sense of
something that they see that moves.
IB4:
So, it's not necessarily people motion or them moving that you're
getting, it's something that they are looking, some sort of object
that's moving.
S2:
Well, a series of objects. I feel like traffic but you know if I
try to pin anything down like that it would be too difficult.
IB4:
OK. No, that's fine, that's fine.
S2:
And there may, there has to be something else there because I got
a feeling of also open and trees and that sort of thing.
IB4:
OK, so you do see some trees.
S2:
Uh huh, openess with trees in the vicinity at least.
IB4:
Are they, OK.
$2:
I'm trying to get a feeling of buildings and I don't grasp that now.
IB4:
That's fine, it's conceivable there are no buildings.
$2:
Yes, it's conceivable.
IB4:
Do you have any color feelings?
$2:
Well, the only color you get as a feeling is it's sort of a light/
dark imagery, it seems light, which to me would feel like it's out-
side, an open type of area as opposed to underneath or dark, that
sort of thing. And, again the dominant feeling is that something
that they're watching moves, within their line of sight. It's not
necessarily the object they're watching. I don't get that feeling,
.
but there is some motion.
-
184:
Can you shift your perspective a little bit. Can you go aerially
and look down and see if you can see a larger perspective?
.
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S2:
but I shall try it
and see what happens.
IB4:
It's up to you, or shift 90 degrees on the ground, one way or
another.
1.4
S2:
I have the image of a concreta building of some sort it seemed
large but I can't tell anything else right now.
IB4:
But you see it as a concrete building.
S2:
That's what I thought.
IB4:
Can you see any details on the building?
S2:
It comes in sort of spurts when I do get some feelings, so that was
the only thing I got as part of it. No sense of even size, al-
though in a sort of a recollection, it would seem like it was fairly
large.
IB4:
Any sense of shape to it, or windows, any identifiers?
$2:
No, it seems as though the building almost comes across like shaped
like a quonset, which really seems strange.
IB4:
No, there's lots of things like that. Is the building dark or light?
S2:
Light, that's why I thought it was made out of concrete or cement
or cement blocks, something of that sort.
IB4:
Or like a light brick possibly?
S2:
Yes, I can't get the texture of the exterior, but it seemed to be
not a rectangular building.
IB4:
Like a quonset hut?
0,1
S2:
Yes, but I'm not sure that's what it is. I didn't get the feeling
of rectangular.
IB4:
Not a squareness.
S2:
Yes, not like you would have a 3-dimensional block, or a cube, or
a square or rectangle.
IB4:
Do you have a feel for the height?
S2:
No, not very good. I get a feel it would be relatively low as
opposed to a real vertical building. It's a relatively lower building.
It feels as though when you get things that are incoming information
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.3
they do come in definite spurts and some moments sometimes you get
it and you're trying to recall what the image was and that tends to
get to be difficult. I suppose that's everybody's problem.
IB4:
Right. You're not sure what's coming in and what you're doing to
if it has come in.
$2:
Well, you get the feeling, a clear feeling every once in a while,
that it comes there but the duration of the signal is very short,
so you don't process it very much and then you try to process after
the fact, so the signal's gone, there's no more clear feeling to
it and then after that I'm trying to recall what I did get and it.
gets to be quite indistinct at times.
I84:
OK, can you move around. I don't know if you're in front of this
building or on the side, but say go 180 degrees around from the
position you are now and see if you can see anything back there.
$2: OK. What I first felt was sort of looking at the side of a quonset
but at sort of on a level basis. If I go to the other side, it's
sort of like I'm looking up now, so that means the ground must have
gone down.
IB4: OK, very good. Is this a grassy area or a paved surface of some
sort? Do you have any feel for that?
$2:
Seems grassy but there is some amount of surface area that's not
grass or it may be dirt.
IB4:
Like a rough area?
$2: Yes, that sort of texture.
IB4:
Is there anything around this structure?
$2:
I don't get a feeling of, you mean like shrubbery or things of
that sort?
IB4:
Or like objects of any significance. Anything that comes into your
field of view.
S2:
This business of detecting motion seems to be tied into it and I
can't tell whether it's something that goes in and out of the build-
ing or something that goes by within their field of view.
IB4: Do you have a feel for what is inside this structure?
S2:
No, it was just the feeling of some sort of. I really can't tell if
it's broken into or what it looks like inside from the imagery I
get. I get a feeling it's designed in such a way that vehicles
could be driven into it.
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IB4: You see an aperture of some sort?
S2:
I get a feeling that it has a door size large enough such that you
could move automobiles or larger vehicles in and out of it.
IB4:
Does it have any windows or any other type openings at all?
S2:
I get a feeling of some sort of openings but I can't get sharp
ideas.
4.4
IB4:
What if you look at it from above, what kind of image do you get?
$2:
Not much.
IB4:
Still nothing really distinct surrounding it either?
S2:
No, I don't really get a feeling of a layout of that with respect
to approach roadways or something like that.
IB4:
But you do still do feel the motion somewhere.
S2: I feel as though it were more vehicle motion. They come either
right up to the building in this increment of time at least they
do that and if I try to stay with the top view, I do get a feeling
of maybe a concrete apron at one end or an apron of some sort.
But to get into it, you're going to have to have something of that
sort, just on one end though.
IB4: Do you see anything surrounding it?
S2: Not clearly. I can't get a feeling of where it is in respect to
us either. I still think it's that direction.
IB4: That direction.
$2: 'I've tried to sort that out again and see if it was here or not
and I don't get the feeling there. The signals you get are very
minimal at best.
1,1
IB4: Do you have any feel for 083 or 086?
S2: No,
..
IB4: Apart from the grass and the greenery type and light and dark, but
no other colors or that type imagery comes to you?
S2: No, I don't get that in any detail.
IB4: Can you scan a larger area around the structure?
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S2:
That's what I was trying to do from the top, but I couldn't get a
feel for it. That's what was bothering me a few moments ago.
I
tried to get over the top and say now what does this thing look
like with respect to, if you want to call it the front, wherever
I got a feel for this front, this larger door entrance and then how
you would get to that from wherever you would get into it and I
don't get any of that right now. I didn't then either and still
don't.
IB4:
OK, why don't you just relax and see if anything else comes to you.
They're going to be leaving in about a minute, but don't worry
about the time.
S2:
No, I don't really get anything beyond what I've already described.
I feel as though it must be farther away from a road, like a
standard highway, then I would normally associate with a building,
like along the edge.
IB4:
It wouldn't be right up along the road?
S2:
No, not right along. I can't say whether you drive 1/4 mile or
whatever it is from a normal roadway, but that's all.
I84:
Would you like to put your images down on a piece of paper?
S2:
I think I got an idea of drawing that building in some very crude
fashion but not in too much of where it sets.
IB4:
OK, I think they have departed the area.
.
$2:
Probably.
IB4:
I'm going to flip this off and let you do your drawing.
.
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REFLECTIVE
LIGHT2 TEXTURE
-
V
TREES (FROM A DISTANT)
183
>
LIGHT DRIVE
MOTION
VEHICLES
1
-INITIAL
BOTH
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!.
9
5
I
Matrix
3
Judging
2
-
Target Site
Transcript
4
B
J
A
E
11
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NCIASSIELED
--
*
Havre de Grace High School
Picture facing Auditorium
On Congress It Havre de grace
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marine
Fydingo Park
Havre de grace
-
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!
-
New Deal Diver!
-
Rt 40 Aberdeen
189~
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Belter MiddleSchool
-
Mores mice Rd
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Richardson's Floust Shop
Leurs + S. Uncon Sto Havre de grace.
Across from Hospital
-
.
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Harford County Community Services Bldg
Aberdeen an R+ 40
. ------.
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A
TEAM T,
IB4:
It is the
at 1:00. This is a session of Project
GRILL FLAME with S1 as the subject, IB4 as the inbound experimenter
and OB11 as the outbound experimenter. OB11 should be at the target
at about 1:30 and we'll start then. The time is now 1:30 and OB11
should be at the target site. So ST, approach the site as 0B11 is
approaching the site now and tell me what you see.
ST:
I get the impression of OB11 moving at a fairly swift pace to the
site and
IB4:
Is this on foot?
.
S1:
Yes.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
And a, the impression that she's on a sidewalk, that she approached
the site from a sidewalk. I get the feeling that whatever it is is
right at the street, that it's a, I get the impression it's a build-
ing right at the sidewalk.
IB4:
Is OBIT approaching this building or this structure?
ST:
I don't have any feeling for her now, she's, I have more of a feel-
ing of the structure itself than OB11 ..
IB4:
OK, S1, go closer to the structure and tell me what you see.
S1:
I get the impression of a brick front structure. Something like a
store or office. I feel, you get the impression of a downtown area,
something that's, like buildings are close together, everything is
close together.
IB4:
Rather than an open type area.
S1:
Rather than an open type.
IB4:
OK, fine .. On this side of the structure that we're looking at, are
there any distinctive features, concentrating on whatever side it
is that we first approached?
S1:
I get the feeling of one large window.
IB4:
At what level is this window?
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S1:
At the ground level.
IB4:
Ground level.
S1:
At the, well the window is not quite at the ground level but one
IB4:
First floor level?
S1:
One sees a very large window at the first floor level and I think
there's just one window and one door, so it's
IB4:
What type of door?
S7:
Not entirely glass.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
Maybe partially white and partially glass.
IB4:
Very good. What's the height perspective on this structure?
S1:
I get the feeling that it's a single story you know, but relatively
higher building. I get the, I get the feeling that an alley or
passage way runs down one side of it, maybe on the side of the door
and I get the feeling that it may be joined with another building
on one side but on the other side one could walk down
IB4:
OK, SI, walk down the other side and tell me what you see.
S1:
I think that side is completely closed, that it's just a wall all
the way down.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
Maybe cinder block, it's kinda like a building with a cinder block
front or a brick front and like cinder block all the way down the
side, I get the impression of a fairly long distance down the side.
IB4: OK, very good. What is the color differential between this side
and the front, or not necessarily the front, but the first side that
we approached, lighter, darker?
S1:
Much lighter.
IB4:
Much lighter.
S1:
Whereas the front might be something like on the red brick type thing,
this is a lighter, either white or gray or tan, much lighter.
.
IB4: So, it was a red brick type thing that we saw on that first site.
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S1:
Yes.
IB4:
OK, walk around to the next side of this structure, which should be
the diametrically opposite side from the first side we looked at
and tell me what's back there.
S1:
I get the feeling that things open up back there, that it's kinda
like, I'm not sure whether it's a service area or maybe even a
parking lot or it, but it doesn't seem all that organized back there,
but that it opens up.
IB4: What perceptions are you getting that give you that not quite
organized feeling?
S1:
Things don't seem to be very squared off in the back, I guess and
my first, with an open area one might think like there's parking or
something back there but it may be, it doesn't seem quite that
structured, formal as a parking.
IB4: What type of surface is back there?
ST: . I think it's, I think it's a hard surface back there.
IB4: OK. Are there any objects back there that come to mind, anything
that stands out?
ST:
I get the, I get the impression that, something back there, I'm
not sure of.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
That's not associated with the, that's not out of the same material
as the building, it seems, I don't know what.
IB4:
Is this something, is it light, dark, smooth, rough, what kind of
size to it?
S1:
I get the feeling that it's something more temporary than the structure
and I don't know whether that's boxes or something back there or,
I got, there's just something else back there I just can't
IB4: Alright.
S1:
I can't define what it is.
IB4:
Ok, Sl, that's fine. What, tell me what this particular side of
the building, of the structure is like.
S1:
Kinda like the other side, I don't know.
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IB4:
Like the last side we chatted about.
S1:
Yes, I kinda get the feeling it's something like this with a large
window and and it goes back here and here's, maybe there's another
building over here, I don't know.
IB4:
Alright.
S1:
And it goes back here and it opens up like the back side of a building.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
And, like I say, I don't know whether that's just material stored out
in the back, it just seems
IB4:
Something that's not quite neat.
S1:
Kinda disorganized. Yes, just some kind of disorganized.
IB4:
Tell me about the roof of this building, of this structure.
S1:
Well, I think it's flat, it appears to be flat from the front one
does not see, when one is at ground level one doesn't see a sloping
roof.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
I tend to think it's a flat roof, but
IB4:
OK, ST.
S1:
It could be slightly sloping on the back.
IB4:
OK, SI, go back to the first side that we looked at and move up to
the door that you said was there, and turn around and tell me what
you see.
S1:
I think one, at that point the impression is it's along a fairly
busy street and that maybe there's parking there, next to the street,
that there may even be parking meters along there, it looks like
cars are parked along the street.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
And the impression is fairly busy, I'd say that it's a fairly, I get
really the impression that this is in, kinda of a downtown place,
you know.
IB4:
OK, very good. SI, walk across the street or place, OK, we've sorta
said street. Walk across the street and look at the structure we've
been describing and tell me what your overall, general perspective
is, what you see, if there's any features we haven't discussed.
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S1:
I get the feeling that this side is other buildings.
IB4:
OK, very good.
ST:
And this side is open, now there may be something, another building .
or something sitting back here, but this is open on this side.
!
IB4:
OK.
S1:
OK, the street runs along here.
IB4:
Alright.
S1:
And I get the feeling that this door is recessed somewhat.
IB4:
OK, very good.
$1:
Set back.
IB4:
You mentioned before that there was a sidewalk of some sort, you
saw something around this building. Is that still accurate?
S1:
That's a sidewalk, yes, uh huh.
IB4:
Alright, very good.
S1:
I'm not sure about that now, I'm not sure about this sidewalk along
the long side now. I'm not sure one can you know like drive a car
back along there or something like that, I guess more of the feeling
that this side is open and that there may be some other thing there.
IB4: Alright. Now we're still across the street looking back at this
structure, is there anything that is distinctive in front of this
doorway or any such thing, do you see any colors, any details about
that particular side and what's in front of that side?
S1:
I get the feeling that in the window, maybe it has a shelf behind it
which is like there is something displayed there. I don't have
really much of a feeling of color except for the front of the building.
IB4:
OK. Now you say that there is another structure adjacent on that
one side, correct? How does its surface compare with this first
structure that we have talked about?
S1:
I think it's different, I think it's
IB4: Lighter, darker?
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S1:
I think it's a lighter one and it looks like a less modern, like a
less modern building.
IB4:
OK, very fine.
ST:
Maybe a different roof line.
IB4:
Uh huh.
-
.
S1:
But I don't have that very clearly yet.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
It just seems like a, seems like a different building, different
style entirely.
IB4:
OK, S1, what is OB11 doing right now?
ST:
I think she's figuring out whether she's supposed to leave or not.
IB4:
That's quite possible, that's quite possible, considering the time.
S1:
But I think she went inside.
IB4:
Alright.
S1:
I think she went inside.
IB4:
Do the same thing.
ST:
I think the place has items displayed in aisles the length of the
thing, you know, like a few aisles.
IB4:
OK.
S1 :
And it's like the shelves, not you know the more substantial aisle
type shelves where things are stacked up on both sides and I think
OB11 went inside and looked around on those things and maybe picked
up some things.
IB4:
OK, very good, very good.
ST:
She spent some time inside.
IB4:
OK. I think OB11 has probably or is in the middle of leaving. What
direction has she been in?
S1:
Like over that way.
IB4:
OK. How far?
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S1:
Not too very far, I think.
IB4:
Not so very far.
S1:
Uh huh. Like maybe somewhere between 15 to 20 minutes away.
IB4:
OK. Anything else you'd like to add?
S1:
I think that's about it.
IB4:
That's about it. Anything more you'd like to add to your drawing?
S1:
No.
IB4:
OK, I'm gonna turn the machine off and I think OB11 is probably on
her way back.
-
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T1
IB4:
Today is the'
It's five minutes after one. This is
a session of Project GRILL FLAME with S1, IB4 and 089. 089 should be
at his target site in about 25 minutes. We'll start then.
IB4:
OK, S1, 0B9 should be at his target. So, relax, keep your eyes open
and let me know what comes to you.
S1:
OK.
: -
IB4:
Do you have any feel for how far away he is?
S1:
No
IB4:
Anything at all S1?
S1:
No, not yet
IB4:
OK, take your time.
S1:
Why don't you try to direct me a little bit?
IB4:
Alright.
S1:
See what happens.
IB4:
Do you have any feel for 089 at all?
ST:
I sorta, sorta feel like he is just walking around.
IB4:
OK, he's walking around, right? Alright, is he in, is he outside,
is it an open area, a confined area?
-
S1:
I think its probably, relatively open where he is.
IB4: . OK, what leads you to say that?
S1:
I get the feeling that where he is located is a confined site,
maybe one building, but around it is relatively open.
IB4:
.OK, So there is a structure of some sort?
S1:
Yea.
IB4:
OK. Can you get closer to the structure and tell me a little bit
about that?
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ST:
I get the impression that its kinda like its surrounded partly by
parking, not this, but maybe a square structure.
IB4:
Alright.
S1:
Like that, somewhere but at least like maybe parking on a couple
sides. I got
IB4:
Alright, do you have any feel for, say on this structure, is it
light or dark, how does it contrast to the area that you are terming
parking but some sort of surfaced or non-green type area. Is the
building a large building?
S1:
Not too large, I think it may be relatively squarish, the building
I get, I get the impression that maybe brick, maybe a brick type,
maybe a brick type building, Ah.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
And it either has a sidewalk around it or something that sets off the
foundation, you know.
IB4:
OK, is there a front to the building? Look around and see if you can
find a front to the building and then see what you can tell me about
the front .. Walk around the building.
ST:
Let me see if I can orient myself. You might say the front might
have some, has a, either, the front has some sort a, sort of overhangs,
you know.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
Over that sidewalk part, that open part there.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
And, I am getting the impression that there is something up near the
front door of that thing, like a, maybe something like an ice machine,
a soft drink machine, or something right out by the front, you know, by
the entrance.
IB4:
What kind of impression are you getting that is telling you its that?
ST:
I get the impression that there's something out by the front like that,
something that, Ah, maybe some sort of storage thing, or something
where people could get something there, like it might be some sort of
servicing.
.
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IB4: OK. Any special, what's it made of? Are you getting the feeling
of a type of material?
S1:
Of what?
IB4:
You know, like a, what we are talking, what you are terming ice
machine or soda machine, something that's sitting out there. Is it.
a boxlike thing?
S1:
Like a metallic cabinet, you know.
IB4:
OK. Any shape to it?
S1:
Yea, rectangular, boxy type, like, maybe the size of a refrigerator
or something like that.
IB4:
OK, why don't we step back a little, move yourself back about a
hundred foot from the front, and take an overall look at this building.
Is it uniform height? Are there variations in height to it? Can you
tell me anything else about any of the details of the building, any
colors?
S1:
I kinda think from the front, say overhanging, maybe there's some
posts along the front.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
You know.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
Under the thing that overhangs.
IB4:
That's the overhang.
-
S1:
Yea, that's the overhang. There's something, some posts, maybe
that's too many posts but.
IB4:
That's alright. Where's the little box?
S1:
Somewhere over here.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
I think it has, maybe has double, maybe it has double entrance doors
or something. Its got a, like a, maybe it has glass doors.
IB4: Uh, huh!
.
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S1:
Something entering in the front.
IB4:
OK. What is the height perspective on the building as you are looking
back at it? You know we have moved about a hundred foot or so in
front of the building.
S1:
I think its probably a, probably a one story building. I get the
impression, ah, ah, roofs kinda, I can't, I don't have much of an
impression of the roof but maybe partially. I don't really, I don't
think its a totally flat roof, or anything. It may.be a peaked
roof.
IB4:
A peaked roof? OK.
S1:
Yea, something that slopes down toward the front.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
Whether the whole roof is like that, I don't know.
IB4:
Alright, fine.
ST:
This will be the front down here.
IB4:
Alright. Any color feelings?
S1:
I get the, my first impression, earlier, was something like a squarish
brick structure and you know, not real reddish but part, you know,
sort of reddish and then, ah, then, after that, my impression was sorta
of lighter materials, I don't know whether that was
IB4:
Was that when we were looking at the front?
S1:
Yea, and the lighter materials, I am not sure that was the, the ah,
maybe that was part of the roof, the trim and stuff like that, you know.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
So, I don't get as strong a feeling around the front of the brickish
stuff. as I had.
IB4:
OK, why don't you do something for me. Go up to the entrance of the
building, and turn around a hundred and eighty degrees? And let me
know what you see.
S1:
Ah, I get the feeling, it'ss not, maybe there's parking business here,
and maybe its not too far from a road here.
IB4: OK.
S1:
Ah, there's something else across the road from it. Ah, another
structure. I think. Maybe not directly across.
.
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IB4:
Somewhere in the horizon, in the area, over there,
51:
Yeah, maybe.
IB4:
OK, in the field of view, in your field of view? OK.
ST:
Yeah.
IB4:' S1, do you have any feeling now how far 0B9 might be from us?
S1:
I really don't. I don't think he's real close.
IB4:
OK, that's fine.
S1:
I really
don't have much of a feel for him.
IB4:
OK, why don't you go in back of the building and look out. Can you
tell me what's in the general background out there?
S1:
I get the feeling there's one of those big trash containers behind
there. One of those dempsy dumpsters or whatever they're called.
IB4:
How about a little farther out the background area?
S1
I don't see anything directly out there. I think it's kind of open
back there.
IB4:
Good. OK.
S1:
I'm not too sure about that back part too much. Maybe the back part
has a cinder block wall or something like that. It's different than the
front or the side, I think.
IB4:
I'm pretty sure 089 has left by now. Is there anything else you'd like
to add or take a look around and find anything you haven't mentioned or
would like to expand on?
S1: .
There may be a road going along this way too, along this side.
IB4:
Anything else?
S1:
No.
IB4: OK. Very good. I'm going to turn the machine off.
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T2,
IB4:
Today's the
it's about 6 minutes after 1:00. This
is a session of Project GRILL FLAME
with S2 as the subject, IB4 as
the inbound experimenter and 0810 as the outbound experimenter. 0810
should be at the target in about 23-24 minutes and we'll start then.
OK, S2, it's 1:30 and OB10 should be approaching the target site,
so what I'd like you to do is approach the target site with 0810 and
tell me what you see.
S2:
OK. I don't think I'm getting any information yet.
IB4:
Take your time.
S2:
It's gonna be a little slow I think.
IB4:
Sure. Take your time and if I don't hear from you in about a minute
or so, I will ask you some other things.
S2:
OK. I have no feel for the target at all yet.
IB4:
Can you tell me what direction 0810 is in?
S2:
No, no distinct and outstanding impressions other than this direction
seems to be the feeling.
IB4:
OK, now that's fine, that's fine.
S2:
I don't feel too swift about it but that's what I think ..
IB4:
How about distance?
S2:
A, it feels close, seems close, I'd say 3-4 miles possibly radially.
IB4:
OK, that's great, that's fine. Alright, do you have, are you getting
any feel for the area now?
S2: ' Not very much, it seems, it seems to be quite different
IB4:
OK. Tell me if it's an open or a confined area.
S2:
It seems open but I'm having trouble with that. It seems to feel
open as a countryside setting of some sort. I don't get the feel
of cluttered or closeness.
IB4 :: Uh huh.
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S2:
Right now that's about the only differentiation I've been able to
make so far.
IB4:
OK, fine. You said a country type setting.
S2:
Yes, which I really mean not to be cluttered with regular formed
objects I guess. Now I'm trying to get something on whether or not
the surroundings do have, or what is there, as opposed to just the
openness.
IB4:
Alright, take a couple of minutes or so and relax.
S2:
Well I get a feeling for some buildings spaced like apart.
IB4:
OK, you see structures.
S2:
Something spaced apart.
IB4:
OK. More than one.
52:
Yes, more than one but not closely packed or close together.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
Still the feeling of open area with a good bit of green or surrounding
green colors or that feel of outside surroundings with, I've gotten
some glimpse of a road which is, I keep getting the glimpse of a
curving type of road as opposed to straight and regular shapes.
IB4:
OK, that's great.
S2:
Or something in, it may not even be road.
IB4:
But something curved
$2:
Something in the ground plane I guess is where it feels as though it
is.
. IB4:
OK.
S2:
Which I interpreted as a roadway or as a pathway, one or the other.
IB4:
But some sort of a curved pattern, surface pattern. Tell me a little
.
bit more about these structures.
S2:
The, I think the one that he would be, there's more than one in the
field of view, that I seem to have a stronger feel for that.
IB4:
Very good, OK.
S2:
Just the size of the, I can't tell if it's the central one or not,
but one of them stands out.
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IB4:
Alright, concentrate on that one.
$2:
That's what I'm trying to do, get some information for that particular
structure.
IB4:
Approach it, move up to it, to one facet, one side of it.
S2:
Yes, OK, I try to place it in terms as you go towards does it get
much, how high does it appear to be or how large an object and it
seems to be quite large. I get the feel for something quite large.
IB4:
Is quite large in height?
S2:
Everyway.
IB4:
Every?
S2:
Every, well probably high, but just generally a bigness.
IB4:
Large, OK.
S2:
Which means it seems this way and this way quite a bit.
IB4:
Alright. Let's concentrate on one side of it, whichever side you're
approaching and tell me what's there, a surface, color, outstanding
features, describe this side to me.
i
S2:
The side that I get a feel for doesn't appear, doesn't have a feeling
of flatness, that is, not all in one plane and it, there's things
that come forth from the structure some way in that there are rather
than just flat staged cubical shapes there seems to be some roundness
to it somewhere and looking from the view that I get a feel for to
the right side of that.
IB4:
We've moved a side then?
S2:
No, I'm staying.
IB4:
You're staying on this side, OK.
$2:
The way that I came at it first.
IB4:
Fantastic, OK.
S2:
And it seems as though to the right of that viewpoint which appears,
the direction that I have a feel for is the way you would normally
approach the building.
IB4:
Fantastic.
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S2:
With respect to people who normally come here and it's size and feel
indicates that a lot of people do come and go. There is some sort
of area there in front, I'm not sure what that is, that's where
people move from like vehicles to the building and I get a feel that
this right side goes off in a curve or has roundness to it some way.
IB4:
Go around it.
S2:
OK. Let's see, if I go to the right side.
IB4:
Uh huh.
52:
I get a feeling for something that goes, a vertical wall that curves
around to hitting another sort of like a projected round in on the
building that goes back on that side and hits into the wall to what
would be now from moving 90 degrees back to the wall that you'd see
from there with this roundness sticking out and then goes straight
back for some distance and then if I move on around.
IB4:
Uh huh.
$2:
It seems to have some stacks or something on top of it or something
from that side that you notice more, it's, I'm not sure, it's hard
to, you know it's hard to keep yourself in one plane when you do
that, but it feels as though.
IB4:
You're not going to stay there very long.
S2:
Yes, just moving around that way as though the surface was lower or
something seems to have a fall away makes, maybe the building is
just higher on that side, I'm not sure.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
But it seems that way and then on around again that
IB4:
Uh huh.
S2:
If I complete a circle, probably get a feeling of a circle, the
other side seems to be just a straight long, straight just plain.
IB4:
Yes, OK, tell me about the texture, color feelings of the walls of
this structure. Are there differences between the various different
places we've been?
S2:
Yes, I seem to, I guess not stone but cement like, a feel for finished
cement exterior with brick mixed and like cement edging and bricks
near the center with top and lower edges with maybe even, that's
even getting brick framed by a cement type of structure.
IB4: Fantastic.
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S2:
I get a feel for that, I don't know whether that's good.
IB4:
That's great. Alright $2, go up a hundred feet and tell me what
you see. Look down on the structure.
.
S2:
Well, I still get a feel for that same general shape of it, fairly
large, the roof is a different levels, you get a feel that the top
is not all one height, which is the same feeling I got from the back
side.
IB4:
Good.
S2:
I have a feel for flatness on top so whatever the different heights
are, they appear to be up and down in flat stages.
IB4:
Uh huh, OK. Look around.
S2:
Yes, I was, that's what I was trying to get. It doesn't seem to be
right, like very, very, like right up against a roadway, it doesn't
and it seems as though there's something, there is a roadway to the
side where I first came and there's openness sort of all the way
around the building actually with respect to the raodways. The road-
way that I have a feel for, the one's I initially felt were curving
not straight, there's I can't get a handle on that roadway system.
IB4:
That's fine, that's OK.
S2:
But you get a feel for one and no sense, I'm trying to get the feel
if there's any sense of a feel of water from above or bodies of water,
I get no feel for that.
IB4:
Greenery?
S2:
Yes, greenery, or that type, vegetation but openness with it mainly
to the rear area seems to be more of the open
IB4: OK. Why don't we come back down and let's go back to the side that
you said would be the approach side that whoever uses this would
approach from this side.
S2:
OK.
IB4:
Move up to there and turn around and tell me what's in front here.
You're at the structure looking out from the structure.
$2:
The first thing I got was a feeling of a, the closest thing felt like
a, some sort of vertical object, and it could have been a tall struc-
ture, tall, thin structure of some sort, it could be a flag pole, or
something, just a feel of something like that. A feel of
IB4:
What kind of material texture to it?
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S2:
Light color, that's all, just a feeling that it's a light color.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
And thin, it seems, a tall, thin type object and away further some
impression of something round, like there's no roadway very close
that I get a feel for, it's like walks or something another, round
flower planting area or something like that and then beyond that a
roadway with some buildings I think beyond on the other side of
that roadway, although, there are structures or something.
IB4:
Some structures.
S2:
Beyond that with nothing, nothing of real earth shaking attention
there, I don't get a feel for odd structures.
IB4:
OK. I want you to move to the roadway and turn around and look back
at the structure.
$2:
I get a feel of a few hundred feet of width to it, still the same
feel for a concrete/brick mixture.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
And near the center of it I have a feeling of a good bit of glass area.
IB4:
Uh huh.
S2:
It looks like even a feel of overhead wlakways, that maybe, I can't
quite tell whether that building, it's up and down portion, you know,
it's higher and lower.
IB4:
Uh huh.
S2:
It gives me the effect or the feel of something like you would have
a projecting area that you would go under these vertical columns, and
they seem to be towards the center of the building from that roadway.
IB4: Tremendous, that's great.
S2:
I didn't get much of a feel for those when I was up closer to it but
I get a feel for it now.
IB4:
Well we might not have been in the right area, this way you have an
overall perspective and can see other things. Tell me what 0810 is
doing. Oh, that maybe a very bad question at this time, he might
have left, S2. Alright.
S2:
That's possible.
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IB4: OK, cancel that question. If you had to pick a word of description of
this particular structure, a commercial, industrial type description,
how would you describe where we've been?
S2:
You mean by it's function or what?
IB4:
A feel, you know,
S2:
It's either a very large office building or a some sort of educational
thing like a school building or something like that is the feel of
the structure.
IB4:
Right, that's, OK. Would, why don't we go inside, walk under and
move in.
S2:
OK.
IB4:
Into this main, into what you've defined sort of as the main, the
main area. Tell me what's there.
S2:
I get a feeling of open corridor types and you have the feeling of,
it's fairly airy, and I just have the feeling of more of a school than
an office building, although it seemed like
IB4: Any reason for that?
S2:
It seems like the things that I get an impression of that are in the
corridor would be things like, I don't know, it seems like they're
bright colored signs and stuff like that. I can't guarantee that,
it's just a feeling that I get.
IB4:
It's a feeling, that's all we want.
S2:
Like in the room spacing and the corridors, down the corridor seems
to be that of a classroom size rooms, that sort of feeling.
IB4:
Uh huh. OK.
S2:
I don't have a good orientation for the inside, I just got that sort
of impression of it. If my vote has to be one way right now I
would go with the school.
IB4:
Oh, no vote, no vote. I just wanted to see what kind of a feeling
you had.
52:
That's the impression.
IB4:
OK, anything else you would like to add. I know OB10 has left by
now.
S2:
Uh huh.
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IB4:
Take a look around.
S2:
There's a parking area that I haven't talked about, it seems some-
where near there, off to the, when I get back to the front area it
seems like there's parking right in there, along the entrance way,
but the main parking I think is this, to the left side of it.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
That's about, I don't know I might be able to come up with more
but I don't
....
IB4:
We can continue if you would like, if you would like to continue to
look at the area that's fine. I don't want to stop you if you
feel that you have some perceptions coming to you.
S2:
I'd better stop with it, cause I'm not too sure now. it doesn't
seem the same-
IB4:
Alright, fine. How about if you would like to please draw the
structure for me.
S2:
I can draw something.
IB4:
And I'm gonna flip this off.
. .
...
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T2,
IB4:
It's now about 11 minutes after 1:00 on the
This
is a session of Project GRILL FLAME with S2 and IB4 and OB10 and
0B12 as the outbounders and OB10 and OB 12 should be at their target
in about 17=18 minutes and we'll start then.
IB4:
OK, S2, it's 1:30, just relax and either tell me what you'd see,
what you see, or if you'd like to have me ask you a question and sort
of lead you in, it's up to you.
S2:
Well, I don't think it matters. Let me start for about a minute
or two with just seeing if I receive anything.
IB4:
OK, that's fine.
S2:
If I receive anything, I'll tell you and if not
IB4:
If not, then I am gonna
S2:
Then you can start asking me or leading me whichever you wish.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
I start off, I get some impression of, it seems like multiple
buildings.
IB4: OK, you see
S2:
Which, the feel of the area is one which is not spread out and open
countryside, there's more than one building in the near area. Now
I can't, I don't have a feel right now of whether or not it's con-
creted city streets or things like that although that's
IB4:
Alright. Are these structures next to each other, is there a
separation?
S2:
I'm not sure.
IB4:
Between these
S2:
I'm not sure, I'm not sure that they're buildings is all, it's just
I'm
IB4: I said structures.
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S2:
Yes, they're structures and I get the feel of they seem to be fairly
close to one another and varying in size.
IB4:
Alright. Do you have any feel for the height of any of these
structures?
S2:
Not a good feel for them but varying and I can't, I can't get a
distribution feel like how many are tall, how many are small, that
sort of thing. It seems as though the shortest are in the order of,
I keep thinking of about 20 feet or so and the taller ones are more
on the order of three times that it feels like the ratio is like
three, so it must be around 60.
IB4:
Alright, fine, tell me about their shapes.
S2:
I don't get a good feeling yet. Let's see, one, I'm trying to single
out just any one of them to get a good close-up.
IB4:
Alright.
S2:
They seem similar in shape, I think that's what I saw from the back.
IB4:
OK, are all of the short group together versus all of the taller
ones grouped together or
-
S2:
That's the feel I've been trying to get and it's hard to track down.
I got a feel of, well it feels almost symmetry in some form but I
can't I don't know if it's, you know the feel like .the taller one is
towards the center.
IB4:
OK.
-
S2:
Or ones of the shapes, whatever the shapes are and then they go down
towards the outer edges.
IB4:
Are they light, dark?
S2:
Dark, I have a feeling for, more or less, well, the one I was thinking
of, the taller one seems to be, I get a feel for it being darker than
the others and in varying shades. I don't have a strong feel for or
have anything right now but I do, the only, I do get a feeling of
symmetry for whatever is involved.
IB4:
Uh . huh.
S2:
And a feeling of something that goes higher towards the center of this
group. I am having a lot of trouble so far getting clearly separating
out any one item out of the group.
IB4: OK. Where are you standing in perspective to this group?
1
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K.S2:
Standing at ground level sort of or eye level.
IB4:
Is there a front to say the main structure in the center of this
grouping? Is there anything distinctive about this main structure?
S2:
I don't get a feel for how distinctive, distinctive about it from
the front as opposed to any other side.
IB4:
Alright.
S2:
Off-hand, but it seems as though there are shadows, it seems to be
the upper portion is not, not in shadow and the lower section is,
so, I get a feel for that and the shape of it is kinda in a way, I'm
trying to sort that out.
It seems rather boxy, whatever it is.
IB4:
Fine.
S2:
I mean in the sense of, I don't get a feel of it being pointed or
anything at the top.
IB4:
OK, very good. Why don't you tell me about the surface?
S2:
Staying with the front I assume you mean.
IB4:
Or whatever.
S2:
It seems a, it doesn't seem to be a constant surface but it seems as
though there's concrete block in it or something of that size.
IB4:
Uh huh.
S2:
I shouldn't even say block but it has a surface of that sort, it has
I have a feeling of a good bit of glass with it or surface of that
type.
IB4:
Uh huh.
S2:
And I still get the same feeling of a change in Tight shadow or that
sort of thing from top to bottom, with lighter, with a more portion
of it, it seems like maybe from the, about one third up being lighter
because of the sunlight effect than the lower portion and that's at
an angle too.
IB4:
Uh huh. Tell me what is on the ground level around this.
S2:
It seems hard surfaced in the right around it, real close by.
IB4:
What direction are you looking at?
S2:
I've not been getting much, it seems like I'm not getting very much
feel for greenery but there must be something there.
.
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IB4:
No, there, you know, if you don't have a feel for it that's fine.
S2:
Yes.
184:
You know, it doesn't have to be.
:
.
:
S2:
If it's there, it must be smaller percentage of the surface area.
.
IB4:
Right, it's not your predominant feature, possibly. Tell me what
direction you're in if you can, or how far away.
S2:
I don't get a good feel for direction. It seems as though I kinda
get both, a. sense for both but more, I guess the dominant one is
like that way. I don't know what that is.
IB4:
I don't know, we'll figure that out later.
S2:
And direction is, I mean in distance, oh I keep thinking of six so
I'd guess six miles radius or radial distance.
IB4:
Very good. Somewhere that way. OK, walk up to these structures and
turn around 180 degrees and tell me what you see.
S2:
Well the first thing I got a feel for was trees.
IB4:
Fine.
S2:
Or something like that with, that type of item and I had some thought
of a road but I didn't get a, it seems like there's still concrete
with that type of road surface or surface out a ways away from the
front of the building. I got a feeling of trees somewhere, I don't
know whether they were overhead or off direct off away from me.
IB4:
OK, anything else out in that direction?
S2:
I don't feel as though it's open area, so it seems as though whatever
you look to see in that area you're not seeing wide open space, it's
a feeling of other objects that are close and no long perspective
view.
IB4: OK, very fine. Why don't you go up above these structures and look
down.
S2:
OK. I don't get a good feel for the layout of them with respect to
one another. The linear shape keeps coming to me. That's the only
thing that I seem to see on them.
.
IB4: Are they flat, peaked, uniform?
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S2:
The tops seem to be flat, more of the one's, it's kinda hard to see
the edges, you get a feel for something, this thing that comes this
way but as you look down from the top each one is a separate object.
IB4:
Uh huh.
-
$2:
And the highest I still feel is in the center and with the edges, I
don't quite know where the edges should be so then I look from above
I don't know if I'm, you know, if I get a feel for the higher one
as it goes out, they seem to be separate and yet you still get a
feeling somehow they are interconnected for some purpose or some
it's probably the way they sit on the ground or something.
IB4: OK. Tell me what you see around them from this aerial perspective.
S2:
The area is still, it seems conjested with some road like areas or
that sort of thing so it's not wide open territory, at least I don't
get that feel.
IB4: OK, very good. Do you, can you tell me anything about any colors.
S2:
Not, well I'm not sure, no I don't get a feel for any colors yet.
IB4:
Alright.
S2:
I got a feel of some red but I don't know where it was or where it
would come from.
IB4:
OK, but some red.
-
S2:
Uh huh.
IB4:
OK, -
can you tell me what 0810 and 0812 are doing?
S2:
Well, they seem to be seated at the moment.
IB4:
They're seated.
S2:
Yes, I get a feel for that. This is the first time I really get a
feel for them. I don't know what they're doing but it seems they're
there.
IB4:
On what?
S2:
Oh, it seems, well something like, I don't know if it's a wooden bench
or something of that sort, it may have the like this high and they're
seated on it. I can't tell, I don't get a feel whether it's indoors
or outdoors but I think, I think it's indoors.
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IB4:
Indoors.
S2:
In something, inside something.
IB4:
OK. Do you have a feel for what is inside?
S2:
It seems like a good number, like it's a busy area.
IB4:
Uh huh, OK.
-
S2:
But they're, and I did get, I get the impression that they're in
some area where there's quite a few people. I don't know what it
is, I can't tell that, and it's, I think it's, whatever that taller
building is or taller thing.
IB4:
Do you have any feel for what type of establishment this is, a, do
you feel, possibly commercial or eating or you know anything along
those lines?
S2:
No. It seems like, I don't know.
IB4:
They're sitting there.
S2:
Yes, they're sitting there.
IB4:
What's around them?
S2:
I can't, it seems like it's open, fairly open, not a confined space
or anything. I don't get the feeling that they're sitting at a
table or anything like that.
IB4:
OK. Any colors come to mind where they are right now?
S2:
No. It seems to be well lit and it seems to be, I get a feel of
a good bit of glass around them.
IB4:
Uh huh. Which of these structures are they in?
S2:
The tallest one.
-
IB4:
The tallest one.
S2:
It seems as if, I've been trying to sort that out I keep always
coming back to whatever that tallest structure is.
IB4:
Yes, I noticed.
$2:
And they seem to have gone to. that one and have gone, are in it.
IB4:
They're in that, OK.
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S2:
But only at the first level of it.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
The front of it seems to be fairly easily accessible, that sort of
thing.
IB4:
Good. OK, we have looked at the front, we've stepped back from the
front and we've looked overhead. Go around to the back and tell me
what's back there.
S2:
OK. I get a feeling of brick on the back of it.
IB4:
Fine.
S2:
It could have been a, or at least the color of brick.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
That's the color and not necessarily, yes it seems even like the
texture of brick.
IB4:
Uh huh. Is this light or dark? Bricks come in light and dark. Do
you see a lightness, darkness?
S2:
That portion of it seems to be standard or fired brick.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
Sort of maroonish.
IB4:
OK, your darker, you're getting it darker.
S2:
Yes, not a very light brick.
IB4:
OK. What's out in back, beyond?
$2:
Looking farther away?
IB4:
Uh huh.
S2:
I don't, it must be confined area again because I keep getting the
feel of everything surrounding this whole area is conjested in the
sense of not being spread out open type business. That's the
dominant feel I've had for this.
IB4:
What is back there, do you have any specific feels of?
S2:
No, I feel as though you don't get a long view of anything, so it's
like other structures are nearby, some open space to the front which
is not too far away from this tallest one and
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IB4:
If you had to categorize this area, I, well you've said conjested,
OK, but residential, commercial, that kind of a categorization,
what would you say?
.
S2:
I'd say more like a commercial area, one in which people would come
to do business of some sort. So I get a feel of that rather than
residential. I don't have any feel for a residential area.
--
.
IB4:
OK, very good. Uh huh.
S2:
And maybe, there may be houses nearby but I don't get a feel for
those.
IB4:
OK, but the basic purpose of this then is not a residential type
segment but more of a business type area, possibly.
S2:
Well, something where, something where, something which is used by
the public I would say that.
IB4: Uh huh, alright, fine.
S2:
Which means not a place where people would normally reside. I don't
even get a good feel for residential room within this string of
+
things which peak out.
IB4:
Uh huh. OK, S2 .: I'm sure they've left, do you want to take a last
look around and tell me what else or expand on something we've already
talked about?
S2
Alright, I'll see if I can get anything else. Well, looking back
towards, standing at the front as you said turn around and look at
the roadway, I still get that same impression of trees in that
direction but no trees, I've been looking for fields or trees
IB4:
OK, so that's the only
S2:
That's the only place I have a feeling of trees.
IB4: · Fine, great.
S2:
I'll try to do the other sides or, there must be something else
there, but I don't get a feel for what the other stuff is, it must
be lower vegetation or something else on the other side.
IB4:
Fine. But you see trees off in this one area.
.
S2:
Yes.
IB4:
Yes, I know, uh huh.
:.
. . .....
.
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S2:
But this time I didn't get them except in that one direction.
IB4:
Uh huh.
S2:
Whatever that direction is opposite the front of that structure.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
That's about the only other thing I come up with.
IB4:
Would you like to draw?
S2:
Yes, I'll draw something.
IB4:
I'm going to turn the recorder off.
1
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T2,
IB4: It's the.
-
S2: Yes.
IB4:
OK. At approximately ten minutes after one. This is a session of
Project GRILL FLAME with S2 as the subject, IB4 as the Inbounder
and 0B3 as the Outbounder. 0B3 should be at his target in about
20 minutes.
IB4:
The time is now one thirty. 0B3 should be at the site. So, S2,
just relax and let me know what comes to you.
S2:
OK. I think the area is a, first thing I got of it is that it
seems to be sorta of an open area, ah, trying, it doesn't come
thru yet as to what, it's trees and various types things in open
areas but not, not clear as to what else is there yet.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
I got a feeling
I got a feeling of his car
IB4:
Is it near where he is right now?
S2:
Yeah, it seems to be close by, closer than, maybe, it might be that
he's even leaning on it or very near it.
IB4:
OK, that's fine. How far away is he from here?
S2:
Ah, I don't get a feel for that now.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
I'd say,
oh! about a three mile radius
is what I think of off the bat.
IB4: OK. OK. He's in an open area of some sort is what you've said.
S2:
Yeah, so far it still seems to be open.
IB4:
Grassy open?
S2:
Yeah, grassy open. 1,4
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IB4:
Is it a flat type area?
S2:
Seems pretty flat. Seems like quite a bit of trees but not immediately
within.
.
IB4:
So they are off in some, some distance?
S2:
Right. Ah, I think there was, the first time there it seems as though
looking, he's looking, looking away from a road or some sort of
road like, and behind him there's fairly good roadway of some sort.
Appears like along the edge of the road. Seems like it was an area
where you wouldn't go too far from the roadway. That he was looking
out across it. There's something in the scenery that I'm not sure
of yet. I keep get a feel for some, I'm not sure what that is.
IB4: What was the first image that came to you? About this thing?
S2:
Ah, I had a image of a bridge.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
And water associated with it but it seemed to be far off. Quite a
ways off in the field of view. though.
=
S2:
I keep getting something that feels like bridges, but I don't know
what, it could be some other structure but it seems like a bridge
structure.
IB4: What makes you say like a bridge structure?
S2: .
Like bare metal.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
Or relatively metallic structure that would be formed into that general
shape.
IB4:
Is it a structure that's sitting on this open area?
S2:
No, that's the problem. I don't get a feel as though it's, like it's
even connected by roads at each end because I don't get a feel of seeing
the ends of it clearly, just.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
Just an object that has, that is made mainly out of metal and fairly
large. So, even using the word bridge is possibly not correct.
.
.
IB4:
Correct, which is why I asked you why you thought it was a bridge.
52:
I just get the feel that it could be towers, could be.
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IB4;
A metal something?
S2:
A metal something as opposed to a bridge.
IB4:
You said water.
S2:
Yeah.
IB4:
Is that in the far feel also?
S2:
Yeah, that seems to be far off. Maybe it was just in the feel that
he was looking in a sweeping type of.
IB4:
Scanning the horizon type thing?
S2:
And that came up on it.
IB4:
OK. Why don't you concentrate a little bit more on the actual place
where he is?
S2:
Yeah, I'll try to stay closer to the roadway for a moment and see
what happens.
IB4:
Sure.
S2:
Well, there's clusters of some, I guess they are houses or smaller
buildings near him. Ah, like maybe half a dozen small buildings,
the size of houses, not any.
IB4:
OK. Any shape or texture to these structures?
S2:
Nothing outstanding. Nothing except that they are generally as, what
I get on the imagery of them is they, they are all in about the same
size as houses would be, and they do have variations so they could
be, I mean not as much in shape and size as in color, or sense of
light, dark, that sort of thing.
IB4: OK. Fine.
S2:
So, that means, I guess that some of them might even be other type
buildings and residences.
IB4:
Well, there's some sort of a structure. A grouping of structures?
S2:
Yeah. More than, I get this feeling of more than one.
IB4:
Grouping.
S2:
Can't place them in my, the imagery isn't good enough to place them
exactly.
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IB4:
Are they connected?
S2:
Ah, mmm, no.
IB4:
OK. So they are distinct?
S2:
Distinct and separate ..
IB4:
OK.
S2:
I get the feeling there is a connection somewhere.
IB4:
Where are they in relation to this open area? Do you have a feel
for that yet?
S2:
I'm not sure.
IB4:
Are they part of it of off to the side of it?
S2:
Ah, they are not out in it, there is an open, open, open area, it
seems as though, that's, I guess they are along to one side or the other.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
Like him, I'm not sure which side or the other because I think he's
moving around.
IB4:
That's possible.
S2:
IB4:
S2:
IB4:
S2:
IB4:
S2 :.
IB4:
S2:
IB4:
OK. Why don't you sort of shift and see what's around these structures?
S2:
I'd say looks like just a grass, trees, shrubs, your standard type
of environment.
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IB4: OK. Let's change your perspective a little bit.
S2:
Uh, huh.
IB4:
Position yourself at the structures and look back.
S2:
There's a, I guess there's a road of some sense, it's not ah, I can't
get a feel for that whether it's. It's definitely a roadway, they're
like houses facing a roadway. There's an opening, I think he was in
the opening, between the buildings or somewhere between some of these
.
things and then there was this open area, seems to be to the back and
way back it seems to be fairly open behind.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
It's kinda strange, it doesn't appear to be a very anything, anything
I've gotten so far, it's just a very common area, not unique in the
sense of a.
IB4: Beats me.
S2:
Great looking buildings or dramatic architecture nearby or anything
like that. Looks just like some spot you'd stop by the roadway, is
the impression I got. It's not really a open road, there's houses,
dark houses or something, there may be.
IB4:
Structures, we're talking about structures, not necessarily houses.
S2:
They're structures, I don't want to use the word houses because I'm
. sure of that. But, whatever they are, there's more of them, they're
sort of linear long, facing the roadway and the roadway, is, that's
why I was trying to turn around and look that way, seems to be, seems
to be tree lined, that's the impression I get and it's ah, not ah,
wide, that wide, maybe more like a two lane road.
IB4:
That's fine, that's great.
S2:
On the other side, looking in that direction, I seem to, seems like
there's more sort of like a rear image of the suburban area, more,
lowered, maybe trees, but lower and more buildings or something or
other, that, not much stand out in that direction.
IB4: OK, let's go back to the structures. Can you get closer and see if
they're, what kind of detail you see about them? Or put a height
perspective or shape perspective on them?
S2:
Well, I should do that sequentially, I guess. A reference point to
work from I guess from where he's
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IB4:
Start, start with one at the end or something. Tell me what you see
as you scan this line of structures.
S2:
What I get is that they're ah, they're fairly, equal distance from
the roadway, they're all common shapes, that is general size, height,
not nothing more than, I don't know, look like A or standard A roof
type buildings. Not all of them, I guess, I get a feeling one of them
is, is a little different, more like a box. I'm getting the feel for
that.
IB4:
What was this A roof type image?
S2:
Well, you know, the regular A roof structure.
IB4:
Butjust on this one?
S2:
No, all of them.
IB4:
All of them?
S2:
All of them but one.
IB4 :.
All of them but one. OK.
S2:
Seem to be like a standard A roof structure of some sort. I guess the
impression is, could be small business outfits or could be houses, just
can't tell.
IB4:
Do you have a feel for what's inside at all?
$2:
Nnnn No, but it seems as though they're, that some of them, like, have
little driveways. Seems like they'd just be houses. That's the only
feel I get for them.
IB4:
OK.
-
S2:
And not spaced .: more than 100 feet apart at the most.
IB4:
What's OB3 doing?
S2: . I.
IB4:
S2:
Ah, now. I don't know .. The only time I really had a feel for him was
standing right next to or leaning against the car.
.
1
IB4: No, then you said he was moving around.
S2:
Yeah, and then walking up now that we're going away from the car.
I
don't know which, seems like he was going out toward the open area
.
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S2: at that time, now I don't really get a feel for him.
IB4: OK.
S2:
Burned thumb or nose burn.
IB4:
Ha! Ha! Ha!
S2:
I don't really know now.
IB4:
Would you like to take a look from an aerial point of view?
S2:
Yeah, I'll try it, I guess. Well, whatever the metal thing is comes
back again, if I look, seems like when I go over here I get back onto
that metallic object of some sort. Now that one I haven't been able
to sort out any, any detail of that thing.
IB4:
What's its.
S2:
It's big.
IB4:
It's big. OK, so it's bigger than these other structures that are near
it?
S2:
It's bigger than these others and further away, considerably away, not
two miles away, but hundreds of feet, it seems as though, something
that would be a dominate influence in that, in that, sort of in the
direction of the open area.
IB4: OK.
S2:
But I can't sort it out.
IB4:
Is there, OK, looking down.
S2:
It's probably whatever the reason is for stopping there, seems like
it is.
IB4:
OK. Looking from your aerial point of view, is there one structure,
is there anything predominates the area, other than this metal thing,
that would be in the more near field?
S2:
I don't get the feel for anything. .
IB4:
OK.
S2:
Unless, I don't know, I assume that there is but I don't get a feel
for it.
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IB4:
OK. Any colors? I mean that we have established that there is an
open green area, but I mean apart from that.
$2:
The building seems to be, the buildings, most of them are lighter
colored, like white and some others seem to be whiteish.
IB4:
Any texture to them?
S2:
Not particularly, just, I guess painted wood. Seems like painted
wood or aluminum siding or something like houses would have. I get
a feel for brick on one, the one that is boxy.
IB4:
OK. That's the one without the A frame you mentioned, OK?
S2:
Yeah, that's the boxy shaped building. That one kinda, well, it
seems, it might be bigger, I'm not sure. It didn't seem to be that
much bigger than the others. This building.
IB4:
Does it have a front?
S2:
Yeah.
IB4:
Can you tell me anything about the front?
S2:
Not much, brick is the only dominant impression I get of the front.
It seems to have more pavement. around the front or more, more of an
area where you come out the road before you get to it and it seems
to be near the center of this group of five or six or so buildings
around.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
I get a, I had a feel first, No, I didn't get a feel the first time.
Now, I've got an idea when you asked me to turn around and look the
other way, that the road, fairly one road, but there's a corner there
somewhere, very nearby within a hundred feet or so where he can turn
around. Like a standard road intersection.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
I don't get too much else. I'm still trying to look from the top.
The roadway, way out from the top has, the road's not perfectly straight
there, doesn't seem to be. The intersection seems: as though one road goes
a little way and stops, in the direction of that open area.
IB4: Uh. huh!
S2:
Like it's just an intersection, it's no, the road starts and doesn't
go anywhere.
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IB4:
Uh! huh! OK, anything else that you see?
S2:
No, nothing, nothing different now. That open area seems more like a,
trying to see, it seems to be green or a low crop of some sort, like
a farm field or something like that. Rather than just grass, there
seems to be a, like a higher surface to it than just grass.
1.
IB4:
OK.
S2:
Which, and green rather than like corn-
IB4:
Uh. huh! Anything off in the horizon, behind these structures, that
comes to you.
S2:
Nothing, nothing that stands, just tree lines, that one area there
where I, keep get a feel for. If you look straight through that field,
there was two, I think, I get the feel to the right is where this metal
thing is, it's off a good ways.
IB4:
OK. Is the metal near the water?
S2:
Yeah, it seemed to be when I first got the impression.
IB4:
Do you still have the feel for some water?
S2:
Yeah, for water but it doesn't seem to fit into the terrain. So, I
"don't know how to explain that.
IB4:
Well, we don't try to make sense out of this. I mean,
S2:
Right. Just the feel for water but not, not like bodies of water or
water in that respect, but like something to do with water in the process.
IB4:
OK, S2, anything else you would like to add? Anything that came to
you that you haven't mentioned or would like to clarify?
S2:
Can't think of anything. .
IB4:
OK. How about if you draw a pretty picture and I'll shut the tape off?
S2:
OK, I'll draw something.
IB4:
I'm sure 083 has left.
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METAL
OBJECT
OPEN AREA
UNCLASSIFIED
CUBE TYPE BLD .
TBRICK ?
A- FRAME ROOFS
WHITE EXT.
BLDS
13LDS
CAR
STREET , NOT WIDE )
.
JBLDS ON THIS SIDE
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A FEELING
WATER

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I
TEAM 1
IB4:
It's now 5 minutes after 1 on the
This is an
experiment of Project Grill Flame with ST as the subject, IB4 as
the inbound experimenter and 083 as the outbound experimenter.
0B3 will be at the target location in about 25 minutes and we'll
start then. OK S1 it's 1:30, hopefully 083 made it to the sight
in time.
$1: OK, I'll just relax so I can
IB4:
Take your time. Any feel for how far away it is?
ST:
No. Initial feeling is not defined, some kind of open, I had an
initial sense of openness of some sort, but I don't know yet.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
I get the same impression of a dark object, I don't know what
that. is.
IB4:
A dark object.
ST:
Yes.
IB4:
A structure?
S1
No.
IB4:
Or just an object?
ST: Yes, I don't sense any, I don't
IB4: Any size or form or anything to this object?
S1: No, I couldn't say, I just have
IB4:
OK, just take your time ..
S1:
I don't have any sense of right now or any impressions right now
of buildings or anything, but
IB4:
It's quite possible there aren't any.
S1:
I get the feeling of machinery or something or other.
IB4:
Machinery?
S1:
Yes, some object, you know, non-structural type object, you know,
it could be machinery or something like that.
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.
IB4:
What, do you have any feel for what it's constructed of?
-
ST:
No. I think it was kind of strange.
IB4:
Any color?
.-
S1:
Something, I had the initial feeling of something, almost a black
blob.
IB4:
A black blob?
ST:
Let me try.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
Try to get some
IB4:
Shift your perspective a little.
ST:
Yes.
IB4:
Maybe that'll help, shift around 90 degrees to your right. You
look awfully confused.
ST:
Yes, I am.
IB4:
But why are you confused, what are you seeing that's confusing
you?
S1:
Well I can't, I'm having difficulty relating, I have a sense of
some sort of open type area, yet there's, I get the feeling of
this object, a darker object could be machinery or something like
that.
IB4:
OK, this open area, is it a greenery type open area or?
ST:
I don't get that feeling, I get some sort of surface, surfaced
type thing, I get the feeling of some, it's strange, some sort,
I'm reluctant to say that they are lamp posts or something like
that, some sort of
IB4:
Some pole type thing?
$1:
Some sort of pole type thing, I don't know what that might be,
Tighter color than the object. I had the feeling, just a fleeting
impression of a bridge structure type thing, but I'm not sure
how, how
.
.
IB4:
Is that high, low, close?
ST:
I didn't get the feeling it was, I didn't get the feeling it was
close to wherever this is, that perhaps not so far away, but, you
know.
. . ... . .. .... ...
..............
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IB4:
Not right there, necessarily.
ST:
Not right there. Let me try to define.
IB4:
Sure.
S1:
See if I can get any impression.
IB4:
I love your black blobs. Why don't you see if you can maybe
concentrate on 0B3. Is it very puzzled?
S1:
Yes.
IB4:
Don't worry if it makes sense to you or not, just
S1:
Yes, I'm just trying to let it sort of define itself.
IB4:
Uh huh.
$1:
I get the feeling of a, like a squared off, surfaced area.
IB4:
OK, fine.
ST:
And.
IB4:
Are you referring, like sort of a black-topped area, do you mean,
or
S1:
Yes, it could be, some, some squared off, large surfaced area.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
Well maybe it's not, maybe it's not surfaced per se, it's just
that it's leveled off flat like.
IB4: OK, fine, whatever.
.
S1:
Like one would find in a tennis court area or a baseball field
area or something like that, you know.
IB4:
OK.
ST:
That gives the impression of a rather structured space, you know
what I mean?
IB4: Yes, OK. Anything on this space?
ST:
Well, that's what I was thinking, some vertical, I had the im-
pression, like poles.
IB4: Like poles?
.1.
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ST: And I don't know, I don't know what they are.
IB4:
OK, you see some sort of poles, any height perspective to them?
S1:
Fairly tall.
IB4:
Tall, OK. Is there anything surrounding this area?
S1:
I get the, I get the feeling there must be a fence somewhere around
there.
IB4:
OK.
S1:
I'm not sure in relationship to
IB4:
What kind of fence?
S1:
Maybe something like you'd find on a baseball field or tennis
court walls sort of thing.
IB4:
OK. Where does your black blob as we were referring to this object
fall?
S1:
I don't know, that was rather ill-defined at the beginning and I
don't know whether this is, it could be some structure associated
to one side of this area and it could be almost, I'm thinking,
I don't want to get too specific, yet I get the feeling it's
something like, you know it could have been something like bleechers,
or there could be some equipment there, I'm not sure.
IB4: OK, fine. Any colors, other than the black or darkness?
ST:
No, that's somewhat confusing to me, I'm
IB4:
What do you see, what's confusing?
S1: Well I'm not sure, I really don't, you know I don't know whether
I'm trying to associate more than what I should or not.
IB4: OK, let's try another.
S1:
I get conflicting trains on that, I tend to, I tend to think part
of it is almost surface like, like black or something like that.
.
IB4:
Uh huh.
ST: And then I tend to think part of it is maybe just the ground,
grass or something, I really don't know.
4
IB4: Is it possible that the one feeling sort of serves to surround
the other feeling?
.....
:
1
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ST: I don't know.
IB4:
OK. Why don't we try a different perspective, why don't you sort of
back off a little and see if you can scan a wider field of view and
see if there's anything around this particular. squared in area that
you've been describing so far, sort of look at it from a distance
and see if there's anything either like in back of it from your
perspective or off to the sides.
S1 :
Of course the one area could be a parking lot or something, you
know adjacent to
IB4:
Uh huh, sure, quite possible.
S1 :
Adjacent to an area.
IB4:
Uh huh. Do you see anything at. all in the, you know sort of in
back of this area or off to a side of it, any kind of structures
or trees or
ST :
I'm not sure, maybe trees on one side, I don't have much sense of
the, I don't have much sense of the horizon.
IB4:
OK.
ST :
It tends to seem like that there's
IB4:
How about the terrain in the back drop, is that a flat area, an
open area, sloping?
S1 :
It seems kinda open, but I can't see much of the far away part.
IB4:
No structures?
S1 :
Oh, there could be a small, if there is, could be a small one
nearby.
IB4:
OK.
ST :
Like a shed or something like that, I'm not sure.
IB4:
OK. Do you have any feel for 0B3?
S1 :
No.
IB4:
Any other things that come into your mind when you're looking at this
area? Do you still have a feeling of a bridge in the distance?
ST: No.
IB4: No, OK.
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S1: No, that was kind of something that just came and went, that wasn't
a very
IB4:
OK, OK, we'll forget about that.
S1:
I just find it, I just find it very strange because that's
IB4:
Do you have a sense of any motion anywhere around, any, you know
like roads or anything like that, that you would see cars or
people or
.
S1:
IB4:
You know it's quite possible there's not a structure around.
ST:
Yes, but I don't have the feeling, I don't have the feeling of
being able to get much beyond, beyond that area there. There may
have been a fence or something between that hard surfaced area.
IB4:
OK. Still the feeling of the wire type?
S1:
Yes.
IB4:
OK. Anything else ST_ I'm sure 0B3 has left the area.
S1:
No, it's kind of odd.
IB4:
Do you want to draw anything?
ST: Alright.
IB4: . OK, I'm going to turn the recorder off.
.
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BLEACHALL
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--
FENCE
n-
Ca'S
packs. Blus
. . ..
+
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DISTRIBUTION LIST
GRILL FLAME PROJECT
3
Honorable Walter B. LaBerge
Under Secretary of the Army
Washington DC 20310
SG11
Cdr, INSCOM
ATTN :
IAFM-OPS-HU (LTC Murray Watt)
FT Meade, MD
20755
HQDA (DAMI-ISH)
ATTN :
MAJ William Stoner
WASH DC
20310
SRI International
ATTN :
Dr. H. Puthoff, Bldg 44
333 Ravenswood Avenue
Menlo Park, CA
94025
Director
Defense Intelligence Agency
ATTN :
DIA/DT (Dr. J. Vorona)
WASH DC
20301
Commander
US Army Missile Command
ATTN :
DRSMI-YB (R&D)
(Mr. Clinton)
Redstone Arsenal, AL 35809
Office of the Chief of
Naval Operations
ATTN: OP 009T (Dr. W. Mehuron)
WASH DC
20350
HQAF (AF INYS)
ATTN: LTC M. Bloom
WASH DC
20330
-
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1.
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WALCLASSIFIED
... . .....
84
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