CIA-RDP96-00788R000700140003-8

Approtection Release 2005/08/09. CIA-RDP96-0078R000700140003-8
September 9, 1981
On It. Belvoir, outside the Cilini Date
of the Mobility Equipment Research and
Developement
Command, U.S. army,
with
SG1J
For the building we are looking
for, that would only be a front.
I mean, you knowita
Fit dogsn't To
ijust fits and
it does not fit in the work they
are doing.
Okay: We're turning on Forney Look
and to enter the housing area to
obtain proximity as close as we can to
the building of interest, where we will
parte, and alex
will attempt to pay
chically add to our knowledge of
the problem .... Give me your im-
pressions. What are you feeling now,
alex ? as a result of being as close
as we can get on opend area to the
building of concern ?!
First of all, again, a since of danger,
a send of urgency, a sense of, how
would
I put it; I want to use the
word "fear" not as being afraid. The
word came quite strongly although
it said research it said testing,
again with a gadget something they
are testing with; I'm trying to find
out. The reason I'm asking to go
around again (the Forney doop) is
this being built there, or is it being
tested there
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Or something else, design.
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alex:
Scott:

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ep
d:
a.
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Design. But this, there's one, I keep
seeing one of this, and the thing
that is, that is so explosive about
the whole thing is that this piece
of equipment, or whatever it is, is
vital to the defense of the country
it's so far advanced
1130 far, that &
in certainy
can see why in that room certaine
things are happening that there are
parts, I keep seeing divisione of
work and no one tenowe what the
others are doing in some of the areas.
all right, but why the feeling of
danger. What is that associated with?
It's associated with somebody there ...
Is it associated with the leakage?
The leakage, of what is going on there
Scott, and that's the danger.
Okay, and that clearly is important.
It's even stronger; you know, I'ne
when I say i'm getting
getting, emotional,
it means I'm
the sense of disaster.
Okay.
I'm not saying it's going to happen
here and now, I'm merely saying the
if this is not found out eventually some
thing will be ...
all right. Let's pursue this. That is one
of the three things about which ad-
ditional input is wanted. Clearly, if
your perception is correct that the
leakage is associated in part, at
least, with the implacement of a bug
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for at
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least reduce the search problem for
people who will eventually search
for the bug.
Is it in the suite
we have identified as 333 ? Is it
inside there?
I'm going to have to reinstate (restate)
something, Scott.
all right.
again, it does not appear to be in
a wall which we seem to be concerned
about a bug would he in a well,
or something.
Or a ceiling, or a floor.
That's not where it is
Okay. That's helpful. Tell us where it
isn't.
This is what I'm saying. It is not
in a telephone, not over a conversa-
tion. ButOne asking miser this
question Is there a kind of communi-
Cation, that's Ilike a walkie-talkie or,
you know somebody you go around
where you
with could be reached?
yeah.
Something like that It looks like
it's in something, more than in a wall.
all right.
and it looks like it could be car-
ried by someone.
all right. Is someone entering the
facility with a device on their person
that is a transmitter or recorder of
what is spoken?
What
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a:
d:
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This is a male, but let me put it
this way, Scott, I'm not sure_
when I say I'm not sure fit' not
clear whether the man who has
this realizes that it's there.
Okay.
all right?
Will go through that line of question.
ing. Is it always the same person?
The answer is yes because he has
access to the place, in and out frequente
Okay. It's a regular employees?
yeah. and it's, in other words, it can the
picked up at another place.
all right; it's a transmitter. Let's go
directly to the area Twhether or not
the person knowingly is the carrier
of such a device. #Psychically, is ...
Psychically, it says no, that he does
not.
Does not know. That he is an innocent
transmitter of classified. all right.
Let me put it this way. Someone else
in there knows that this person is
carrying this.
ah. So there is a resident in that
suite.
Oh yes. There is someone in there
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I don't."
000
Really. ....
a:
a:
.... . .... ... .
a:
all right, that's what I'm saying.
Does this person who, is this person
male or female that has this
device on?

a:
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all right. Is that other somebody a
man, or a woman ?
man.
also a man. Let's get some description.
age - general age is the young?
midde aqu ? or any break down that
you can give.
I'm going to hold that time a little
later, and I'll tell you why. e
want to lie down, you know, and
place myself into the situation
where this person would be coming
in.
Okay. all right. We have established
that your impression is that the
bug is not installed in any part of
the building, but comes and goes
on the person, unsuspectingly. But
there is someone in the suite who
knows of this implantation, and does
what ? Takes advantage of it, and
says things within the listening range
of the device so that it knowingly
will be transmitted?
a :
In other words, that person has con-
nections with someone, if they were
talking about top-secrets, it
could be transferred. It's transferable.
do the uh, let's call him agent-me-
place'; that is, the person who is
involved in traitorous activity knows
who has the device on him
a:
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and move that
Te, that man could
a.

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4 lets say,
90,1 in the vault, or anything else,
and you know, ...
0
But, but you know, if I understand
would,
how the device works, it only picks
up conversations ...
yeah. Conversations. I'm merely
saying that whenever the person
would go, in other words, there is
conversation, it would be picked up.
Okay.
Now, let me go back. This was one
of the probleme prior, I said that,
remember. I said, I don't know how
it's transmitted. Remember, I don't know
whether it's a wall, but I knew that
it was built into the building. Will,
can we consider that as being built
into the building?
Well, yeah, certainly, if you want to.
Technically, it's not part of the Truilt
ing, except as a person becomes part
of the building when he or she comes
to work. But let's don't quibble over
a detail like that.
all right, all right. Because I don't see
that it is in a wall, or in a light,
or something.
Okay.
now, I have to say this much. I'm seeing
this here and now. It does not
mean that in the past there maynot
have been .
d:
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another type. I'm not concerned with that.
a:
00
a:
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a:
since they have asked the question
"could it dansin the past?"
J: But let's clear this up. Is it your
impression that in the past there
was a bug or device, implanted?
a:
The answer is yes.
Okay, and is it still there?
no, it is not.
d:
a:
Well, was it, is it, when you say
it's not there, does it mean ...?
I mean it's not active.
It's not operative.
a:
It's not operative. Now whether the
Tug is not there, or not, the answer
seems to say no. The reason behave
it is certain things were tom, or
separated, or something, and that was.
Was it discovered?
I don't know, scott. I will have to
think about it.
all right. Now. We are deferring
description of the person who is the
agent- in place in suite 333, but &
want to ask you, can you describe the
person who is carrying the device at
this time? a male?
It's a male. I would give him
around 30. I would say he's about 510.
or 5'"1".
Color of hair.
Dark Eyes are dark.
Skin?
a:
d:
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Caucacion.
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all right. His function; his job?
In 33; or where does he work in
33? Work more around the machinery,
at the end of the room? Or, does he
have one of the cubicles, or office?
all right, let me put it this way. I
see him around the machinery, that
I also see him going into the what
you care the vault,
portothe person
you know.
or the person who is ....
Okay So he is cleave for the vault,
then?
yes.
Okay. Does he have are assigned room
or cubicle that you described, or does
The spend some time in there, in
one more than any other?
That is not coming clear.
a:
That would be helpful, if you
could say.
....
a:
I keep seeing him when you ask
that, and I cannot say yes or no.
I keep seeing the cubicles as an
image, but I cannot see him going
into it.
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What I'd like to have you do, if
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you we can tell, you know,
a middle one, or one to the right as
you come into the entrance, or one
to the left towards the machines
to try to pin down a location to
help identify the person? Can you
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persona

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a:
but it may,
not at this time, you know,. I'll
su how it works. It's just ...
the urgency of some information
That has already been known or
the fragments of information that
have already there known.
all right. Let me ask the questions
for identification - this person is a
college graduate?
The answer is yes. he also has a
degree in, you know, a degree.
a graduate degree?
a graduate degree. Specifico specifi-
cation, as an example, maybe in-
gineering.
Can you tell us what specific degree?
That, I'll have to work on.
Where did he go to school" East Coast?
West Coast?or Mia West?
I would, I've remember this. Question
like this cott, if they do come out
I'll give you the information
anaquer.
like to, how would I put it, quiet,
you know, quiet down.
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a:
Let's go to the device itself that this
person innocently brings in. Does
he bring it in everyday? Does he always
have it?
It appears that this is something
he carries around that is normal to
him, but unknown that the device is
there.
Okay.
But let me the specific.
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Something that he carries around,
Thir
to
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V
a:
yes. you know, it could he in his wallet.
without him realizing it. That is an example.
I want to the specific now. Is it some-
that he carries
things like a hand computer ?Is it in
his briefcase?
a.
Let me put it this way, Seatt. It
looks small to me.
It looks small.
Weak and it looks like as if it's
a calculator.
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a calculator.
The size of a calculator, or something
like that.
Okay. Let's try what it's not. It's not
in a particular pair of shoes.
No to It's like a calculator , something
you can carry around if you were
going to varo numbers, or something
like this, it would be there.
Okay. any other impressions on the bug,
on the device at this time?
no.
Okay. There let's shift a laale hit.
What is in the vault? Now alex, &
realize you consider these other things
more important, but you have deferred,
for good reasons any more details, so
now that we have proximity to the
building let's try to bring out as much
detail as to what' in the vault.
all right, the vault has designs for
certain equipment
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