CIA-RDP96-00787R000400070025-6

Approved For Release 2003/04/18-CIA-RDP96-00787R000400070025-6
2 February 1973
MEMO FOR THE RECORD
SUBJECT
Paranormal Phenomena:
Further Developments /Reflections / Suggestions
1. This memo : recapitulates briefly the substance of the 1 Feb meeting with
TSD (para 2); supplements in a limited way earlier reflections on the phenomena
(para 3); and suggests possible next steps for joint TSD/ORD action (para 4). The
Attachment is a suggested draft memo for convening a low-key conference with
other Agency elements having a legitimate interest in the topic.
SG11
2. The 1 Feb meeting was attended by
of TSD and
SG11
of ORD; theSG11
meeting was held in the ORD conference room and lasted from 1400 to 1700 hrs. The
salient subjects covered were as follows.
SG11
a. TSD's Past & Present Project, Future Intentions. TSD first got into the
paranormal field with SRI in summer 72, giving them a few thousand dollars to complete
experiments they were then running (evidently largely on their own funds ) with SWANN
and, a bit later, with GELLER. It wasn't a controlled 'project' per se but, rather, a
stop-gap measure -- the results of which were the recent presentation and film. TSD
was sufficiently impressed by those results to invest 50K in a six month SRI project
(JAN-JUNE 73), the purpose of which is to examine SWANN in considerably more detail
and to see if findings of a nature similar to those in the GELLER experiments result.
If they do, TSD will in all likelihood urge some follow-on by themselves, ORD and/or
others (e. g. , the Natl Sci Foundation) but that is a matter which can be seriously dis -
cussed only as the SWANN data begins to come in. TSD won't know the precise nature
of the SRI design/intent with SWANN until
next visit there; while the SRI
people have been quite cooperative and willing to accept Agency suggestions as to design
and procedures (we are the only sponsor they have as yet, although there have been some
indications that minor funds have been provided by the Mind Science Foundation of L. A. ),
the fact that neither SWANN nor GELLER know of Agency or USG involvement (and would,
presumably, resent it) has precluded any direct involvement or close control by TSD.
SG11;
SG1B
will send ORD a copy of the current project. TSD has not as yet addressed
itself seriously to the question of practical or immediate CS operational applications of
the purported phenomena.
b. TSD Impressions of SRI and GELLER-SWANN. TSD has no reason to doubt the
motivation or credentials of SRI management and researchers and, on balance, believe
that they have conducted themselves and the experiments with decent objectivity. SRI
management was highly skeptical and reluctant to get involved at the outset but now most
.of them are 'believers' -- even though they still fear the possibility of a hoax and are rel-
uctant to become publicly identified with the experiments; for this reason they have thus
far refused to let PUTHOFF and TARG publish any of their data. Nonetheless, the latter
two and possibly other SRI officials as well now believe that they are on to scientific break-
through of the century -- and are understandably eager to keep control over the Subjects
and the experiments so that they won't be aced-out of the eventual credit. SRI's initial
proposal to TSD (Dec 72) was for a one year project totalling
for exhaustive
SG1B
testing of both GELLER & SWANN and research into transferability/trainability of the
SG1B phenomena); TSD could underwrite only the
for the phenomenological testing of
SWANN (with some hopes of medical/behavioral testing as well) and told SRI that they
could, naturally, try to interest other parties in the balance of their proposal. SRI has
sent the proposal to NIH, ARPA, NSA, DOD (and possibly others) but, while considerable
interest has been expressed, there are no other takers as yet. SRI is also interested
in developing screening techniques to identify people with paranormal capacities but it
is not clear to what extent (if at all) this will be addressed in the current project, All
they really hope/expect to accomplish by June 73 is validation/verification of the fact
that there are, indeed, phenomena worthy of our study; beyond that, as to whether SRI
has theoretical physicists or others, for instance, who could actually get at the roots of
the phenomena, TSD does not know but seems inclined to doubt it.
SG11
(1) GELLER :
met him once and only briefly and by accident; G struck
him as a quite 'normal' person in superficial terms -- though obviously intense and alert.
Though he doesn't talk much about himself or try to articulate his feelings/perceptions
about his 'powers', some limited background data of unknown reliability has emerged: G
Approved For Release 2003/04/18 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000400070025-6

SGFOIA3
SG1B
Approved For Release 2003/04/18:2CIA-RDP96-00787-000400070025-6
states that he first became aware of his powers at about the age of five -- when he began
moticing that perceptions/feelings /abilities common for him were weird/frightening/off -
ensive to his playmates; responding like a true social animal, he began to repress the
powers as a trade-off for peer-group acceptance -- though he still used them sporadically
and states that they contributed to his rather high academic performance; while in the
Israeli army he began doing barracks tricks for his friends and finally developed a full
magician's routine and he now states that he went into the stage-magic business since it
offered him a socially acceptable way of using his gifts (he doesn't care whether his
SG1B audience views his work as trickery or supernatural and admits that he uses some of both
in his professional routine).
Though
not communicative, G is generally pleasant and cooperative (at least, as long as he is
being paid adequately); he had one bad brush with Mr LAWRENCE of ARPA whom he per -
ceived (perhaps not without reason) as being hostile -- but otherwise he hasn't been unduly
temperamental. He is now in New York (for how long and for what reason was not clear)
and has no further contractual relationship with SRI at this time, although there is no
reason to doubt that he'd accept one if the monny was forthcoming. While SRI clearly
views him as their property and want to be associated with any further use of him, we
have no way of knowing what G feels in this respect. TSD believes, however, as did
apparently the others present, that it would be unwise and unfair of us to try to finesse
SRI out of the picture at this time; at the very least that would jeopardize their current
contract with SRI -- and it may well be that G wouldn't cooperate without SRI's blessing.
(2) SWANN: Though quite a bit less 'talented' than G (both in the range and inten-
sity and predictability of phenomena) S is easier to work with, is more articulate and
perceptive about his powers and, apparently, truly wants to understand them. During
the 6 months SRI intends to test him on some of G's 'tricks' as well as further investigate
his own; they will also hopefully examine the possibilities of training/enhancing his powers
and at least make a stab at trying to determine what is going on during the phenomena (e.
g., EEG, electromagnetic, etc); finally, they hope to do some basic medical examinations
of him. S is living in California for the 6 months and is fully at SRI's disposal. Again,
SRI hopes to sew S up as their property but we have no inkling as to S's views on the
matter -- or whether he would be willing to cooperate with USG.
c. Possible ORD Involvement/Contribution. TSD stated that they would welcome
ORD involvement; should the current tests bear-out the earlier findings, thus establishing
beyond reasonable doubt that there IS something worth study, there would obviously be
more than enough for all of us (and others) to do -- much of it well-beyond TSD's legitimate
charter and interests. It was generally agreed that $$ it was too late to make any basic
adjustments to TSD's current SRI contract -- although it was also agreed that to the extent
these and subsequent discussions uncovered possibly fruitful avenues of approach TSD
would pass them on to SRI for whatever modifications might be feasible. Basically, it
was felt, we should now address ourselves to the fundamental questions issues which
would be essential to any sound follow-on project should the current project live up to
expectations. If it does not (i. e., if the SWANN evidence is inconclusive or negative) it
is quite unlikely that TSD will continue in any guise. But if there is to be a continuation
TSD and ORD should fashion it jointly and, in order for momentum (and the Subjects) not
to lost, the preparatory work should be completed by April or so. While there seemed
to be general acceptance of the rough delineation between the TSD and ORD roles (i. c. ,
'applied' vs 'basic' research), it was agreed that another meeting between the two units
should be held before we consider getting the necessary in-put from other Agency
SG11
elements -- though, in principle, it was agreed that that would be an essential step as long
as it was handled in a sufficiently low-key and unbureaucratic manner. NOTE:
will be out of town during the week of 5 Feb and, after the meeting, it was tentatively
agreed that the next TSD/ORD meeting would be at 1400 hrs on Friday, 16 February, in
the ORD conference room.
The TSD representatives strongly urged that one or two ORD
representatives accompany Mr KRESS the next time he visits SRI in order to get a feel
for the institute, the people and the way things are being handled.
d. Other Matters. There was much anecdotal exchange about SWANN & GELLER
and considerable interesting though inconclusive speculation on the phenom na but the
SG1B only other substantive matters/ suggestions which seem worthy of note were as follows.
It was generally agreed that there was no profit in becoming involved with the
circle or the nebulous groups/foundations in that milieux; TSD mentioned
Approved For Release 2003/04/18 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000400070025-6
SG1B

SG1B
Approved For Release 2003/04/18 :- CIA-RDP96-00787B000400070025-6
that, in any case, it would be impossible to get clearance to deal with
On
the other hand, it was recognized that later study to determine the critical variables
associated with the 'psi' capability would require a much broader subject-population; but
it was felt that there would be number of ways of dealing with this problem (highly selec -
SG11
tive advertising, reliance on the extensive card-files SRI is now creating).
suggested that GELLER and SWANN themselves could be our 'spotters' since it isn't
illogical to assume that they can recognize others with the capability -- and would probably
be, if willing, adept at training those with the innate ability.
also suggested
that, if possible, some of the SWANN experiments (e. g. , the thermal ones) be designed
SG11 for simultaneous, multi-faceted testing of thermal instruments working on different
principles; TSD will pass the suggestion to SRI. They will also pass to SRI Dr KASSLER's
suggestion that SWANN be tested for extraordinary visual/audio acuity.
3. Reflections. Since, as matters now stand, apparently nothing more is to be done
with GELLER and since we can ill afford to ignore the powers which he alledgedly has and
which SWANN does not share, the following possibility might be explored. Telling SRI
(sincerely, by the way) that we have no intention of easing them out and that they will have
full access to the data and first option re publication, we persuade them to use their good
offices with GELLER in the following manner. They tell him that, in order to get the
kind of money necessary for prolonged research, they showed their data and film on a
highly selective basis to officials in the USG. While all expressed interest (and many
incredulity) only one group had both the vision and the courage and the means to pursue
the matter -- and they urge GELLER to at least listen to the proposition they wish to
make. If he asks who they represent SRI finesses the matter by telling him that the rep-
resentatives, themselves, would rather explain their status. (NOTE: Alternatively, with
appropriate backstopping, we could pass ourselves off as NIH officials -- see below) SRI
then provides the introduction to GELLER and we try to convince him to accept a contract
as our consultant for a two or three month period -- renewable if both parties concur. If
we don't pose as NIH officials and if he insists on knowing who we are, we tell him -- but
only after enough low-key and sympathetic exposure to permit him, at least, to judge us
objectively. If we pose as NIH, the rationale for our interest is simple -- straight basic
research. If we drop cover, the rationale is simply that, in addition to our scientific
interest in understanding the phenomena, we are concerned about the potentialities for
its use in the wrong hands and against the interests of humanity as a whole; we have a
defensive responsibility in that regard and solicit his help in meeting it. In other words,
we virtually level with him. As matters now stand we have little to lose and, handled
adeptly, we might get a reasonably cooperative response. If so, we arrange for him to
be ensconced in an NIH clinic (under alias if he prefers) and ensure that the conditions
(privacy, security, yet freedom of movement for G who will live and sleep there but be
free to leave outside 'office' hours) are optimum from his and our points of view. We
then conduct the experiments designed for him and have him examined by an array of
NIH specialists. In this context, while we probably have to keep the regimen as un-
threatening and unpainful as possible, it would be of great value if we could obtain
blood/metabolic/other indices both when he is 'high' (performing well) and when he is
in a normal state. If consistent traces lead to biochemical suggestions, the whole matter
of both identification and enhancement in others (drug-wise for example) might be short-
circuited. All of us experience in less dramatic ways 'on' and 'off' states -- with minor
cycles being measured in hours or days and major ones measured sometimes in years.
When we are 'on' we 'click', feel 'fit', are on top of things and we are perceived by others
as being 'effective', 'dynamic', %%%% 'magnetic', etc. It seems reasonable to assume
that similar or analogous cycles are operative in the 'psi' arena -- and that (as with us)
the underlying causes are physical/chemical, as well as environmental and psychological.
4. Suggestions. That the group (TSD/ORD) meet again at 1400 hrs on 16 February and
be prepared to consider at least the following topics:
a. the respective TSD/ORD functions and goals in the proposed joint effort;
b. feasibility of the para 3 (or another) approach to SRI and GELLER;
c. specific research and preparation essential for any post-June 73 follow-on;
d. advisability and modes of obtaining other Agency in-put (see Attachment).
Approved For Release 2003/04/18 : CIA-RDP96-00787R000400070025-6
SG11